David Gencay Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Finally after having these for two months I finally got the chance to listen to them tonight I have several amps I could have listened to them through I picked the one that was easy to get to I used a adcom 555 amp going through a harmonkardon citation 17 preamp that combo sounds ok through other speakers . It was a sick muddy sound any ideas thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Did you listen to multiple albums on the khorns? If the recording is muddy than khorns won't hide the shortcomings. At the same time a recording that is superior wil shine on the khorns while only sounding ok on other less effecient speakers. Khorns are true to the source material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossman Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Are the Khorns new or vintage? If they are vintage - do they have the original networks and drivers? I bought a pair of 72 khorns two years ago, hooked them up and was appalled at the sound. I discovered that the tweeters were DOA and the networks were bad - the original oil based capacitors had leaked empty of oil. After replacing the tweeters and networks they sounded much better but not how I remembered from 35 years ago. I then again replaced the networks with ALK universals and the horns and horn drivers with Greg horns and BMS drivers and now they sound divine (in my opinion anyway - and my opinion is the only one that matters when it comes to the sound of my Khorns.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatnoop Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 bet one of both of the tweeters aren't working. listen to each up close, you may need to cover the mid, and see if they are tweeting.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 more info please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 First things first, or else everyone will have you go out and buy tube amplifiers ...... The electronics you listed are fine. So let's do some simple stuff first. 1. Are both cabinets located in corners? Are they snug in the corner? 2. Is there any chance one or both woofers were connected out of phase (to each other or to how they should be to the network)? 3. Are all the drivers working? Put you ear up close and use tone signals if you have them. 4. Are both cabinets showing the problem or is it just one cabinet? Please be more specific about what the sound is like or what it is missing. Not to worry, all problems are fixable. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 "The electronics you listed are fine." That Adcom amp may not be fine for the KHorns. Power amps are rated for distortion at full power and may have high levels of notch distortion at levels used by sensitive speakers (1W area). That Adcom may be fine for driving speakers with sensitivites in the 86-89dB kind of range, but not speakers like big Klipsch. The muddiness may simply be from using a 200W power amp in the 50mW-3W range where the notch distortion is proportionally high. I also notice that the input sensivity of that amp is 130mV. That is a very low figure... That means that the amp is delivering full rated power (200W) when the preamp signal is only 130mV. Most power amps have an input sensitivty in the 800-1000mV range (.8-1V), and some go up to 2V. What this means in practice is that as you turn up the volume knob, when the preamp is at the 130mV level you are done, no more power after that; just distortion; and that point may be reached at any degree of the volume knob. It is very possible that the full power point on the volume knob can be at 10 o'clock or 12, or 3 o'clock...it depends on the power amps' input sensitivity and the output level of the preamp. Most preamps will send a nominal output of 1V (1000mV) from traditional sources (tape/phono) and will output typical 2V max with digital sources. This later point is why digital sources need less crank on the volume knob for the same level as phono. There may be some kind of mechanical/electrical/acoustical issue to be resolved with the KHorns, but you should probably start your investigation by using a properly scaled power amp and a preamp that matches its input sensitivity. Big Klipsch should sound very clean and clear even if you put them in a closet upsidedown and backwards... try your lowest power amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 "The electronics you listed are fine." That Adcom amp may not be fine for the KHorns. Power amps are rated for distortion at full power and may have high levels of notch distortion at levels used by sensitive speakers (1W area). That Adcom may be fine for driving speakers with sensitivites in the 86-89dB kind of range, but not speakers like big Klipsch. The muddiness may simply be from using a 200W power amp in the 50mW-3W range where the notch distortion is proportionally high. I also notice that the input sensivity of that amp is 130mV. That is a very low figure... That means that the amp is delivering full rated power (200W) when the preamp signal is only 130mV. Most power amps have an input sensitivty in the 800-1000mV range (.8-1V), and some go up to 2V. What this means in practice is that as you turn up the volume knob, when the preamp is at the 130mV level you are done, no more power after that; just distortion; and that point may be reached at any degree of the volume knob. It is very possible that the full power point on the volume knob can be at 10 o'clock or 12, or 3 o'clock...it depends on the power amps' input sensitivity and the output level of the preamp. Most preamps will send a nominal output of 1V (1000mV) from traditional sources (tape/phono) and will output typical 2V max with digital sources. This later point is why digital sources need less crank on the volume knob for the same level as phono. There may be some kind of mechanical/electrical/acoustical issue to be resolved with the KHorns, but you should probably start your investigation by using a properly scaled power amp and a preamp that matches its input sensitivity. Big Klipsch should sound very clean and clear even if you put them in a closet upsidedown and backwards... try your lowest power amp. David, I had an Adcom 555 II hooked to my khorns for quite a while. The 555 will work very well with the khorns. You shouldn't be getting muddy sound from that amp unless something is wrong with it or something is wrong with the khorns or frontend equipment. It could very well be a miss match with the pre and amp as Pauln says unless of course the 555 is on it's way out. That said, how do you mean sick and muddy. If it is the mids, you may just not like the mid horn. If you have good solid corners, using the 555 should give you very good bass. If the khorns are in good corners, it actually sounds like they are sensitive enough to tell you that there is something wrong elsewhere, unless of course they have been trashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 seriously, we could start a list of things to check that could wind up being 99 items long. why don't we start by finding out where you are located. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Guys, If the K-Korns have a "sick muddy sound", then the problem is not an inadequate amplifier A working Adcom 555 is fine. Perhaps the OP is exagerating the problem, but I am taking him at his word. In any case, we certainly have not ruled out the obvious problems and we don't have a clear description of the actual problem. But if you guys think it is a "amp problem" then fine .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadork9 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 For what its worth my adcom 585le hooked up to my cornscalas sound better than my mint mcintosh mc-7270! So...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRay Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Take it from someone who has learned the hard way: First things first. Do things sound fine with headphones plugged into your Pre? If yes, then double check phasing (polarity), if that's OK then remove, clean, replace, ALL connections on the Barrier strip and the drivers. I've had vintage equipment I spent hours diagnosing only to discover loose or oxidized connections. Next would be Crossover components such as dried out caps. It is very difficult for a novice or even a technician to diagnose bad drivers without a good sound source. If you Google "audio test CD" I think you will find some free test discs you can download and burn. I have one of these but it isn't free. --- http://www.joes.com/joes/store/index.html ---. The test signals can also help you tune your room. One of the neat things about having a Lab Grade test CD is how often you will use it and how much time it will save you analyzing gear. Best of luck. On edit... here is a link to the Bink .wav files you can download and burn to a CD. Be sure you burn the files without compressing them. --- http://binkster.net/extras.shtml --- Also, playing them from your computer into your Pre is not a good idea if you don't have an outboard DAC. Windows Media will compress them. Michael covers this in the superb txt files that explain how to use the disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 "Muddy" is not a word I would ever use to describe the sound of KHorns. Something is very wrong somewhere. The good news is that it should be so obvious that it'll be easy to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/145329/1491208.aspx#1491208 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 David, When it was stated, you might want to change the thread title, I don't think any thought it needed to be so severe [:|] . Well with that said, we've all been there, done that.... Enjoy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 don't be so hard on yourself...I remember hearing a pair of Heresys and thinking...man these are shot...in reality...all the moving around caused one of the connections to come undone...glad you got it worked out...enjoy! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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