ed4000 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I am at a junction in my home theater, and want to start some upgrades. Looking for opinions on what would be the most significant upgrades to do first. What changes could I make that would make the most noticeable improvements in sound? I will probably need about a year to get everything I want, but want to do the most important upgrades first. (will be about 3-6 months between purchases) I have: Pioneer VSX-516 receiver (no-hdmi, no HD audio processing) - (Upgrade candidate) Klipsch RB 35's for fronts, RC 35 for center (they will stay- built into cabinet - see second pic below) Surrounds and sub are from Onkyo SKS-HT500 HTIB set -surrounds are 2 way: 4 " woofer & 1" dome tweeter - 100 watt ----(sub is 8 inch 150 watt - downfiring) -(Upgrade candidates) Everything sounds good, but I have the upgrade bug and would like to eventually go all Klipsch. I can only have a 5.1 setup. 1. The matching Klipsch RS35 surrounds are a bit large for the the wife, and I've read that a direct radiating speaker might be better for newer multi-channel formats. Also the surrounds are actually about 3 feet to the rear of the seating area and about 12 feet apart. (See pics below- surrounds on wall units behind love-seat and in right corner of first pic) What kind of Klipsch surround/rears would be best for this setup, and should they be wired into the surround or surround back channels of the receiver in a 5.1 setup? 2. My sub sets behind and to the side of the seating area, in a corner. (see first pic - sits in right corner of pic) I could move it up front in a corner close to the mains, but like the location it's in, and it sounds ok to me, but I haven't listened to other setups and subs either. The matching RW 12 is front firing, I'm thinking of using a Synergy sub 12 that is downfiring as it might be better for a behind the couch setup? The synergy can be purchased a little cheaper than the RW 12 reference sub also. 3. Thinking of upgrading the receiver to a Pioneer VSX 33 to get hdmi switching to 2 outputs for projector and lcd-tv. Also for HD sound processing from blu-ray. So which upgrade would give the most bang for the buck first, or are any differences from what I have be negligible at best? Receiver first? Sub first? Surrounds? or just keep the money and be happy with what I have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Both receiver and sub would be a pretty big upgrade. The sub would be what I would start with then the receiver then the rears. I would pass on the klipsch sub though. You can get a better sub for your money imo. I have owned klipsch subs and imo they are nice but not the best value. If you could give some info on your budget I can point you to a few places. You want to use the surround outputs the surround rear is for 7.1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 You should upgrade the receiver first. HDMI has substantial improvements over rca 5.1 or TOS digital fiber. If you upgrade to HDMI, you will notice a definite difference in the system. If you go changing the surrounds, you need to concern yourself with timbre matching. As you cannot change the fronts, changing the rears can be troublesome. You have a very seemless HT, and there is a lot to be said for that. It is definitely wife friendly. As for subs, adding another sub exactly like what you want and placing it in another part of the room would fill that in nicely. If you want to spend some money, I like the Paradigm DSP subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrod Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 My first upgrade would be your sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragusa3 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Yep, sub first. I agree that I wouldn't go Klipsch for the sub. Multiple subs are a fairly large inprovement. Maybe keep the one you have and add a second? Next would be the receiver and getting a full HDMI signal path that plays the new HD audio formats. Improving the surrounds would be last on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed4000 Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Hmmm, haven't thought of keeping the Onkyo sub and adding a second. Should I keep it where's it at in the back corner, and add a front firing sub to the front wall pointing towards the listener? Should the second sub just be hooked up with a y-cable off the sub pre-out on the receiver? My sub budget is up to around $500. I've been reading a lot of good reviews on the BIC America subs, at around $200, would the extra $200-300 over that for another sub get me any significant improvement? I am now leaning against the Klipsch subs, because of all the reports of amp problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I'm not familiar with BIC. Klipsch subs are actually great subs, but they aren't budget friendly for their performance. There was one recent model line that has had a lot of amp problems, but I think that was product specific with the amp being a third party vendor. With a $500.00 budget there are two subs I would check out: http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html If you use two subs you can either get a 7.2 receiver or just use the Y-connector. It doesn't make much difference for sound. One issue is that if you use two different subs, it can often be difficult to balance the sound. I use two identical Klipsch subs in my set-up, both front firing on the front wall and they are magical together! Sub placement is very sensative and requires alot of trial and error, but with a good back and some patience, you can get some great sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I own the Emotiva Ultra 12. It is great with music and just as good with HT. It is a really solid sub, hits hard and does get down to around 22hz. I believe this sub is a great value (more so when on sale). I also think highly of Epik, SVS, Velodyne and Hsu..... I do not think I would keep the Onkyo sub as a second if I were you; but it may sound good enough to do so. (Esecially if no music is played; only HT). Good Luck!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJCarney Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 If you have $500 to upgrade then here's what I would do. New onkyo ht-rc180 from accessories4less. That will be a HUGE upgrade in your electronics. It's networkable so you'll be able to get internet radio like pandora. It has the HDMI in and outs so you'll be able to get 1080p bluray movies. It's really a no brainer cause your avr is a giant roadblock in video quality right now. Not to mention the sound quality on BD. That will pave the way for you to upgrade your projector (im assuming it's not 1080p?). Then after your video is inline I would go for the sub. Unless of course you don't watch movies? Then I would do the sub first. Elemental designs sells the A2-300 for $415 shipped and they say it is their best bang for your buck sub. I own an eD sub (2 actually) and they are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Elemental Design was the one other one I was thinking of but couldn't remember. Good recommendation for < $500.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed4000 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Well I went against all advice here and elsewhere. I got caught up in a spur of the moment e-bay deal and scored a KSW-12 sub for $170 shipped. I couldn't resist trying it that cheap when the matching RW 12 usually runs closer to $400. I just hooked it up last night so I haven't been able to listen to it much (waiting for the wife and kids to be out!). But so far, it sure sounds better than the old Onkyo 8 inch htib sub. Another reason I got it, was because i think(?) I would prefer a down-firing sub versus the rw12 side firing. The KSW 12 doesn't have the most stellar reviews, but I'll think I'll be satisfied with it, as long as it doesn't die on me. Anyway, I've got the Onkyo stuff sold now, and will have to get some surrounds fast. I'll get the new receiver this fall. I can get the matching RS 35's for around $300 but I'm having trouble pulling the trigger on them because of their size (mainly the width) and shape. Also not sure if I'll like the directional properties of them versus a direct-firing speaker. I don't want to get more RB 35's either because of their size. I have even though of using Quintet surrounds because of their small size, but am concerned about the power handling specs of most smaller speakers. I want to be able to crank the system up when I've got the house to myself and not worry about damage to the rear surrounds or being underwhelmed with the sound. What would be something decent for surrounds that might be a little smaller than the RS 35's in that price range that would be a decent match for the RB35 mains? They wouldn't necessarily have to be Klipsch, I just have to get something fast! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluBitRates Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 check out a used pair of klipsch rsx-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Well I went against all advice here and elsewhere. [*-)] What would be something decent for surrounds that might be a little smaller than the RS 35's in that price range that would be a decent match for the RB35 mains? They wouldn't necessarily have to be Klipsch, I just have to get something fast! Thanks! Why do you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed4000 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 LOL, good question! Maybe I'll promise to listen better this time? Surely, the KSW 12 wasn't that bad a choice! At least it's Klipsch ! and at that price, I thought I could try it out for the knowledge/experience and still flip it back on e-bay and get my money back & even maybe make a few bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 LOL, good question! Maybe I'll promise to listen better this time? Surely, the KSW 12 wasn't that bad a choice! At least it's Klipsch ! and at that price, I thought I could try it out for the knowledge/experience and still flip it back on e-bay and get my money back & even maybe make a few bucks. It wasn't their best offering but I'm sure it will be better than your Onkyo 8" that you currently have. At least your not into it that bad that you'll take a loss if you sell it. There's a reason the 5 or 6 Klipsch fanatics tried to steer you clear of Klipsch subs. There was also a reason it sold for $170.00. If you hang around long enough, and I hope you do, you'll find that most all forum members will steer you in the right direction. All you have to do is take advantage of the wealth of knowledge and past experiences that are presented to you. Sure there'll be differences in opinions, but if every poster is basically telling you the same thing, then there has to be something of merit to what they are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 LOL, good question! Maybe I'll promise to listen better this time? Surely, the KSW 12 wasn't that bad a choice! At least it's Klipsch ! and at that price, I thought I could try it out for the knowledge/experience and still flip it back on e-bay and get my money back & even maybe make a few bucks. It wasn't their best offering but I'm sure it will be better than your Onkyo 8" that you currently have. At least your not into it that bad that you'll take a loss if you sell it. There's a reason the 5 or 6 Klipsch fanatics tried to steer you clear of Klipsch subs. There was also a reason it sold for $170.00. If you hang around long enough, and I hope you do, you'll find that most all forum members will steer you in the right direction. All you have to do is take advantage of the wealth of knowledge and past experiences that are presented to you. Sure there'll be differences in opinions, but if every poster is basically telling you the same thing, then there has to be something of merit to what they are saying. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunt Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 If you have $500 to upgrade then here's what I would do. New onkyo ht-rc180 from accessories4less. That will be a HUGE upgrade in your electronics. It's networkable so you'll be able to get internet radio like pandora. It has the HDMI in and outs so you'll be able to get 1080p bluray movies. It's really a no brainer cause your avr is a giant roadblock in video quality right now. Not to mention the sound quality on BD. That will pave the way for you to upgrade your projector (im assuming it's not 1080p?). Then after your video is inline I would go for the sub. Unless of course you don't watch movies? Then I would do the sub first. Elemental designs sells the A2-300 for $415 shipped and they say it is their best bang for your buck sub. I own an eD sub (2 actually) and they are great. +1 to this...I upgraded from a Pioneer VSX-920 (already much more current than your AVR) to the above mentioned Onkyo. Everything about the RC180 is superior to the Pioneer...options, menus, quality, power, preamp outputs, etc. For $349 shipped (keep in mind the Pioneer was only $100 cheaper), it seems to be a fantastic upgrade to a system, especially for that price. Another good reason for me ditching Pioneer? Global crossover...worthless IMO. As for subs, I also agree with the Elemental Designs recommendation. Prices include shipping and customer service is fantastic. The Emotiva Ultra12 does have that tiny footprint going for it (WAF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 +1! That Emotiva is great at bringing the biggest sound to the smallest space (footprint). I am borderline NFL (Near feild listening) with the Heresey 1s, etc...... (I sit exactly 9 feet from the mains. The room is about 12 X24 feet) I have also heard my sub in a much larger setting.... (Big Cliff's basement). It was at least his HSU's equal. (A really good sub also) Man; two of these in a nice room? Heaven. Definitely great bang for buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed4000 Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 CECAA850 wrote: "There's a reason the 5 or 6 Klipsch fanatics tried to steer you clear of Klipsch subs. There was also a reason it sold for $170.00. If you hang around long enough, and I hope you do, you'll find that most all forum members will steer you in the right direction. All you have to do is take advantage of the wealth of knowledge and past experiences that are presented to you. Sure there'll be differences in opinions, but if every poster is basically telling you the same thing, then there has to be something of merit to what they are saying." I truly say this with all due respect, but I know what the purpose of the forum is, or I wouldn't be here. Judging from the system you have, you know what you're talking about, and it's opinions like yours that I'm looking for. It was my fault in not explaining the reasons more for my purchase of the Klipsch sub, and I was somewhat joking about going against all advice. The ksw-12 scored a 4.51 out of a possible 5 in 169 reviews on audioreview.com which isn't too shabby. Based on this, I thought it was worth listening to, and making my own decision. Home theater & electronics is really my only hobby, and I have always enjoyed trying out different components, seeing the pros and cons of them, then reselling them, all the while slowly upgrading to newer and better components. Using resources like ebay and craigslist make doing this fun and cheap, as most things can be resold for at least what you paid if you buy carefully. My system is pretty archaic by many measures, but I started out not that long ago with a 27" crt tv and a $199 pioneer htib. So I'll one day get the system of my dreams, but am in no hurry to do so, as getting there to me is half the fun. I was also trying to stretch the $500 upgrade budget a bit, to possibly get the receiver a little quicker . I sometimes feel a little guilty spending any money at all on this stuff. 2 kids in college, way too many balls in the air, and a skimpy retirement outlook at best all conspire to make me try to find the cheap way out while keeping the hobby going. I say all this because I don't want to appear to be a mindless rookie, as my post might have suggested, and there (usually) is a method to my madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Makes more sense when you put it that way []. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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