Best Crossover Replacement for my La Scalas?

[Invidiosulus]

Erik,

The shortcomings of the k700 horn in my heresy 1 were not apparent until I made a tractrix horn. Certain sounds and frequencies do sound as though they are coming from the other end of a tunnel with the k700. I listened to some CDs at Marvel's house and some of the instruments I was used to hearing on my tractrix heresy things seemed as if they were too far back in the mix and had that tunnel sound. I'm getting ready to build some tractrix midrange horns for the second pair of ls that he just picked up. My plan is to build several pair at once and I wouldn't mind shipping some to you to try out. -Josh

[66hr]

66hr

Would you share some details about your 300b amp? I have been surprised at just how strong the 300b can be, even with speakers in the 87dB/watt/meter range. I built a pair of monoblocks lasr year based on a direct-coupled 6SN7 into the 300b that are outstanding. It's possible to see how they would be satisfactory with the ES networks in K-horns. Had you ever used these amps with the type A?

The amp is hand made downunder, including the winding of the transformers.

http://www.westonacoustics.com/page0041.html

I'm no tech head but I do love this amp and I'm using TJ full music output valves and Jadis input valve. I've got the hum down to below 2 milli volts using these valves. It also has a Mullards recitfier valve. I much prefer the sound of this amp with the ES in comparasion with the Universal. When I first got the universal networks, and then using the K-77-M's, I used to put a pair of socks in each tweeter at louder volumes. Tweeter Attenuator fixed that problem and now using Ct-125's. I've never heard a valve amp with a type A network. I may have never heard a good type A as the ones I have heard have been over 10 years old.

[66hr]

9 watt Single ended here and after trying 4 different networks, the ES networks are here to stay. I have both the ES4000 and ES5800. I've settled on the ES5800 with the Fastlane mid horn.

It's all about personal choice, unfortunately the ES networks aren't cheap, but I'm very pleased I took the punt.

The best advice is try a few networks, we're all different.

Well there you go. Often times, general guidelines do not apply. Good to know the ES networks worked in your application, 66hr. Just don't mention that your using a SE amp to Al

All I can think of is that I have more respect for Al, than Al has for me[]

Telling Al you're using a one lunger isn't as bad as telling him you prefer vinyl[^o)]

[66hr]

Has anyone else realized that the thread started has not posted since the starter?

Craig.

It's still an interestesting thread.

The OP also did ask this question on AK, and did post more than once over there.

[seti]

9 watt Single ended here and after trying 4 different networks, the ES networks are here to stay. I have both the ES4000 and ES5800. I've settled on the ES5800 with the Fastlane mid horn.

It's all about personal choice, unfortunately the ES networks aren't cheap, but I'm very pleased I took the punt.

The best advice is try a few networks, we're all different.

Well there you go. Often times, general guidelines do not apply. Good to know the ES networks worked in your application, 66hr. Just don't mention that your using a SE amp to Al

All I can think of is that I have more respect for Al, than Al has for me

Telling Al you're using a one lunger isn't as bad as telling him you prefer vinyl

Mmmmmmm one lunger and vinyl

[Johnny's Jill]

Descriptions of music reproduction are often vague, I agree. By 'sharper outlines' I mean the manner in which instruments are presented in space -- either more clearly or diffused. What does "true to the music mean"?

Good point, I dont have a better explanation. The Tractrix sounds bettter to me. Like watching movies in HD, its just better.

Once you go Trac, you never go back. Wow, that's cheezy.

I've never had any trouble...ringing or shouting, etc.

Thats what I thought til I heard a wood Tractrix.

There is little point in trying to explain, until you have the opportunity to hear the difference you will be happy with what you have.

Craig.

[erik2A3]

All very helpful responses to that question -- I do appreciate it!

That is a very nice amp, by the way! Those are Sophia Electric 6SN7s, aren't they? I think I may have an idea about what that circuit is, and may in fact be very close to the one I built last year. 300Bs can sound much bigger, IMO, than what their output horsepower might suggest. That's been my experience, at least.

The way I've been listening to these La Scalas lately actually came about by an accident: I don't know what I was doing.......switching out crossovers or amps or some other thing (the usual neurosis), when I had one of those ubiquitous jaw-dropping experiences when I began to listen in the near-field, which may sound odd for speakers that have the power to blow the windows out. Truly, something happened in a really nice way, and the effect and sound is not unlike listening with my Grado headphones. I used to listen at probably twice the distance, but much prefer the closer position. It's hard to describe sound to someone else in a way that's meaningful, and I do appreciate the effort you guys made to give me your impressions. I would very much like to try the well known Tractix sometime. I have split Industrial La Scalas, and it looks as though all the squawker connections as far as attaching to the baffle are the same as a standard La Scala, so it should be too difficult to put into place. Josh, thanks for the kindness in offering an audition. I wish I knew how to make paragraph breaks that actually work! erik

[erik2A3]

Kevin:

95dB would really be pushing it for me, as well. I might do that with the likes of Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, and occasional heavy metal (fun sometimes), but my main musical diet is classical (piano sonatas, Baroque, guitar, woodwinds), and acoustic jazz. Turning such music up too loud does not sound natural to me, can obscure fine detail, etc.

[66hr]

That is a very nice amp, by the way! Those are Sophia Electric 6SN7s, aren't they?

The input valves are Jadis ECC32's. I bought them on the advise of Loreny Tang of

www.wiwitubes.com

With the mid horns I'm using the first word that comes to mind about the sound is that it is more open, if that makes any sence[*-)]

[mark1101]

The tractrix "beam" less than the exponential.

[Guest David H]

Once you go Trac, you never go back. Wow, that's cheezy.

That is way cheesy!

Dave

[Marvel]

I wish I knew how to make paragraph breaks that actually work!

erik

Erik,

If using a Mac, with Safari... you can put in the pargraph breaks very simply. I admit you shouldn't need to do this, but...

Type a < (less than symbol), p, and a > (greater than symbol). THis will put a paragraph break in there, right were you want it. Everything else will just wrap like it's been doing.

Bruce

[erik2A3]

Bruce:

Correct diagnosis. So, let's test: The thing about coupling capacitors is that frequency response seems to be influenced by the color of the capacitor, not to mention the width of the soundstage, which can be measured by a special type of caliper (the best being made from teak). One holds the very large caliper out in front of the system, about 10 feet from the speakers, and measures where the soundstage/image begins and ends.

The above statement is utter nonsense, accept the part about the best soundstage calipers being made of teak.

Erik

[erik2A3]

Awesome! Thanks!

erik

[Invidiosulus]

I didn't have any teak calipers on hand at the time but the soundstage on Bruce's LS with the DHA2 crossover was much wider than the space between the speakers.

¶¶

-josh

[Invidiosulus]

The Problem with the WYSIWIG editor not working in Safari or Chrome seems to be related to the Javascript rendering engine they both use

To be technically correct as far as the markup goes for creating paragraphs you shouldn't just type <p> every time you want to create a new paragraph without first closing the previous paragraph with a </p>

In HTML a paragraph is what is known as a block level element and such things are not supposed to be nested. By not closing the previous paragraph you would in essence be nesting your paragraphs within each other with none of them properly closed.

Because of the way the forum software treats the inputted text it doesn't really seem to create a problem though.

I usually avoid bothering with the paragraph tags and just insert a couple of line breaks by typing <br />, a line break is a self closing tag, hence the slash next to the greater than symbol.

It's not really going to mess anything up either way. But since I spend almost 8 hours a day writing and poring over HTML it does kind of bug me.

-Josh

[BE36]

BE36:

I am greatly interested in what you think of your Fastrac horns compared to the k400. Would you mind if I asked you to characterize some of the differences you found -- not in the sense of 'better' or 'worse' (which can be ambguous) but rather the nature of the sound produced by one compared to the other. I would appreciate it! Erik

Sorry - bin working too late last couple of weeks.

I am a tin ear but hear it goes:

More accurate reproduction to live, less bright. Less ringing after the main note on instruments like a piano or symbols.

Changes in "Sound" are sublte but there are two major differances between Fastrac/Tractrix and K-401 & K400: (Yes I have tried four different Mid Horns in my La Scalas)

1) I no longer get a headache after 45 minutes of listening

2) My dog stays on the couch when volume is 80dB or more.

IMHO PWK would admit to two things if pushed:

1) Tractrix is better than exponential Horn for Mids ( Somewhere he is qouted as saying the K400 was too long?)

2) Horn effeciency is only really a benfit on the power hungry woofer, on the mids and tweeter it is more marketing than an engineering requirement.

Regarding 2) -I have heard great sounding Direct Radiating Mids but the best tweeters Use some sort of a horn or reverse horn, JBL & B&W.

[erik2A3]

Thanks for taking the time to share your descriptions. Erik