michael hurd Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I haven't used the passives you linked, they are C.S.S. units sold through Solen. I measured my TC Sounds 12" TC3000 basket for you though. From the front of the bolting flange ( without a gasket ) to the rear of the spider mounting plateau is 3.028 inches. I don't have the 12" version of the passives, although I have the 18" version. I did measure the distance on the 18's for the rear bolt ( where the mass is added ) from the spider, the bolt sticks out a total of 2.935 inches, however you would never need that much length, and it is plastic, so it can be cut shorter. The washers that you add to the bolt are 2.943 inches in diameter, and the nut is 1.872 ( measured across the points not the flats, so the largest possible diameter ) The diameter of the rear of the spider plateau is approximately 10.83 inches in diameter. ( the basket is not round there, rather it has 4 spokes that are a tad less than 3/8's of an inch [0.335 in ] off of the round basket ) That, I measured with a fabric tape measure, and used a calculator to determine the diameter. One other option for higher excursion passive radiators is John Janowitz @ AE speakers in Green Bay, Wi. He makes them out of a disc of MDF with a tube on the backside for adding mass. There are 3 stock masses. ( uses 1/2", 3/4" and 1" MDF discs ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Michael, Thanks for the measurements as I really appreciate the time you spent getting them...! It is time to start getting ready for the testing. I cut the tops and bottoms yesterday and today and trued everything up to the CAD measurements. I am at a stage to start gathering the passives for testing, I already have the K-12's and I am going to purchase a TC Sounds VMP 12 per djk's reccomendations. I will also purchase one CSS APR 12 as I need to get some Inductors and Caps from them (Solen) to finish some crossovers I am working on. Question: Does ANYONE have any other suggestions for adjustible mass 12" passives that I/WE should look at? The more I read, I am leaning towards the CSS APR 12 as the passive with the most options but I have NO idea as to the quality of the unit. I am going to email John Janowitz at AE Speakers tonight as to his suggestions for this particular passive installation. I realize that the 12 inch drivers make ALL the difference to tuning and also that the Kappalites may not work. At this stage, I want to get as many options as possible on the table and gather what I need to start testing. I realize that the K-12's are more than likely not going to be even in the playing fields as a passive/drone for this project. Below, all the tops and bottoms are cut and have been matched to the CAD template with a belt sander: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Second Cabinet Top and Bottom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Template Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Looks like an aerial shot of the desert somewhere in the Middle East.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 The Sliding Table actually works out for a nice workbenh................[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Template temporarily screwed to the piece that needs to be sanded............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 It is an absolute MUST, to have the proper tools to do the job ........UMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, I'm figuring about six cases for the build, (does not include testing) so that is an adder to the final cost of about 78 bucks to the final price....![6] Ah, the prices we pay....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Template temporarily screwed to the piece that needs to be sanded............... I bet a robosander would work great for that, http://www.luthiersfriend.com/robosander/robosander.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 WC, The progress continues. That is fantastic. You are getting some helpful advice, but let me make a comment. You are going into unchartred waters on this build. The is not a great deal out there on how to specifcally set up a drone when the drone itself is horn loaded. We do know that Roy was able to get such a system up and running, although we don't know how close he was to getting the final tweaking done. Appearently, it was close enough so that measures were made and there were improvements in lower distortion, extended LF bandwidth, and increased efficiency. Since that is the case, may I suggest staying the course of a reverse engineering project. Specifically, stick with the Klipsch drones and the Klipsch drivers. This would mean that in principle you can get a system up and running and that will have the above benefits. The more you deviate from that, then the more problems you may encounter (maybe or maybe not). We know that the prototype worked and it was "tunable". If the project was to "simply" vent the back volume of a folded horn, then I would encourage more experimentation. This case is a bit different however. In either case, I am enjoying watching the progress. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 I have several Drum Sanders up through 3" that I use in my Shaper. Surprisingly, I can get better control with the hand held Belt Sander. I have a larger stationary Belt Sander with a Disc on the side but it really removes material too quickly. The pieces are also pretty big to try and drag across a Drum or Disc accurately. The Belt Sander gave me better control in sanding to the line, so to speak. In doing this, I got the first piece to exact dimensions and matched the other three pieces to it. That probably doesn't make any sense but working with eight sides that have to match exactly, it seemed the only way that I could accomplish it. One of the problems with a drum sander is it can goug the edge pretty quickly and after you have done that it is TOOOOOO late. (Just ask me how I know that...?) I've found that the drum sanders are better suited to contours rather than straight edges, of course, that is just me.....The Drum Sander did a great job of smoothing the round adapters that I had to make for the drone. I cut them with a Jig Saw and finished them on the Drum. The tops and bottoms, to me were the toughest pieces to cut and get right, as they have to match all of the side panels exactly. This truly has been a woodworking experience for me asm a Norm Abrams I am NOT....>! I guess it just falls back to what tools you are most comfortable with in using. YMMV........[] W. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Tom, I am in total agreement with what you said. One of the issues I have is how did Roy/They weight the K-12 passive (if that is what they used)? There really is no way to add any mass to it unless I drill the back of the cone disc and add a bolt and start adding flat washers. One of the things i am afraid of in doing this is the rubber surround that attaches the cone to the basket is very soft and flexiable. It would seem to me that this would have a tendancy to "Sag" under the added weight, which may be substantial (almost 52 ounces at 1400 grams). That's three and a quarter pounds and for some reason I do not think the K-12 will support this type of weight. possibly they used it stock and added nothing, I just do not know what was done. But we are going to find out, one way or the other as I don't give up too easily......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 I need to find a couple of K-31 as I doubt very much if Klipsch parts are going to send me a couple for testing....! Jc, is the offer still open to "borrow" a couple from you? I will also look on the bay and see if any are available. I agree, we need to start with the K-31's and one K-12 and see how they test out first. That would be the reference to work from, I presume...... W. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Yes. let me get a few in hand and get back to you... jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I have several Drum Sanders up through 3" that I use in my Shaper. Surprisingly, I can get better control with the hand held Belt Sander. I have a larger stationary Belt Sander with a Disc on the side but it really removes material too quickly. The pieces are also pretty big to try and drag across a Drum or Disc accurately. The Belt Sander gave me better control in sanding to the line, so to speak. In doing this, I got the first piece to exact dimensions and matched the other three pieces to it. That probably doesn't make any sense but working with eight sides that have to match exactly, it seemed the only way that I could accomplish it. One of the problems with a drum sander is it can goug the edge pretty quickly and after you have done that it is TOOOOOO late. (Just ask me how I know that...?) I've found that the drum sanders are better suited to contours rather than straight edges, of course, that is just me.....The Drum Sander did a great job of smoothing the round adapters that I had to make for the drone. I cut them with a Jig Saw and finished them on the Drum. The tops and bottoms, to me were the toughest pieces to cut and get right, as they have to match all of the side panels exactly. This truly has been a woodworking experience for me asm a Norm Abrams I am NOT....>! I guess it just falls back to what tools you are most comfortable with in using. YMMV........ W. C. The Robosander has a bearing on the bottom like a pattern bit for a router which makes it way easier than a regular sanding drum. The idea being that you make the template and then follow it exactly without having to worry about taking away too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Well DUH.........I never paid any attention to a bearing. It is like a trim bit for a router, great idea. I could ahve certainlu useda router to outline the template but in all honesty, I just cut the three other pieces close and used the Belt Sander to finish to the template. I am sure that there are numerous ways to do it easier and better than my method it is something that just works for me. I will never be known for doing anything the easy way. Edison didn't invent the light bulb, he just found several thousand ways of how NOT to do it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Final DRY assembly........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 With the exception of some slight sanding, the fit seems to be OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Still dry fitting..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 It is imperitive to be sure that everything fits before any gluing...just ask me how I know....has something to do with braces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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