SPL meter advise ?

[skally]

Hello everyone, first time post here as I just joined the Klipsch fourm. I just bought a used pair of KG 5.5's used off craigs list a few weeks ago and like them very much but I have since ordered the Bob Cites cross-overs & Ti tweeters. Anyhow.... I am in search of a "decent" SPL meter as it does not have to be top of the line but something you would reccomend as a good/decent unit. I have never used one but am willing to learn. Some have mentioned on the AVS fourm that a Radio Shack SPL would work good as some say they would by something elese.... so I thought I would post on here to what you may reccomend. Other than the Radio Shack SPL for $50 I was looking at Amazon and founf a couple as well. Any help?? THanks

Jeff

Others I have found:

www.amazon.com/Sinometer-3-Mode-Digital-Sound-SL5818/dp/B000J4L8LW/ref=sr_1_24?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1326490330&sr=1-24

or

www.amazon.com/Pyle-PSPL03-Frequency-Weighting-Professionals/dp/B005E8MV78/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1326490467&sr=1-3

[Quiet_Hollow]

+1 [Y] for the Radio Shack SPL meter. It is of proven quality and it's performance envelope known industry-wide. I find the analog meter style is more insightful as it's a little easier to spot a trending needle. See of you can find one of the "older" models in used condition. NADY makes what appears to be a copy of the old Radio Shack meter, but I cannot comment regarding their build quality or function.

Beyond that, prices start climbing exponentially. B&K and Phonic start off in the triple digit price range even in "used" condition.

[garyrc]

If you want to use it to adjust all channels to the same Sound Pressure Level from your listening position using a pink noise test disk (keep the volume below about 85 dB to avoid speaker damage), then Radio Shack is O.K. To measure frequence response, especially in the higher end of the frequency spectrum, they aren't very good, differ from meter to meter, and the various sets of corrections floating around do not agree very closely.

[Fish]

The radio shack meter is fine for level matching,

[Louis Bartay]

The radio shack meter is fine for level matching,

I agree I have a older R/S model 33-2050 needle meter, with A and C "weighting". Friend has a newer model and only has "C" and mine reads a lower number when both are on C setting. C seems to be more senitive and read the levels higher then "A" weighting. I use the C and don't go over 90 Db when setting up a Bluray for the family. When the Holiday bills are paid off I want a newer (better) meter. I would like one that can be re-calabrated as I want to know just how loud am I "really" playing my music. If I keep the music or movie at 85 or so my ears don't ring after a movie. I purchased it on Flebay for 20 bucks so no big loss. But I have noticed I donot play the system as loud after I got the meter and read the chart for level of exposure.

[DavidF]

That model SL 5818 looks like a unit I have used. I just can't find it at the moment to compare. Anyway I wanted a non-weighted operation as opposed to A or C weighting so I did not have calculate the curve delta to get a flat response. I believe this unit has that shown as "Lin". You will have confirm. Also, the claimed variance at 1.5 dB is better than most in this price range. In fact I paid around $125 if this is the same or comparable model.

Agree with comments on Radio Shack models as mentioned above. I have had 3 or 4 over time and found that they are not very consistent. The older ones seemed to work best but no idea how to tell which are the older models.

You will need a test signal generator or something like the Stereophile test disk.

I bought the Parts Express Omnimic not to long ago and so far so good. Easy to set up and provides information much more efficiently than a meter and signal generator alone can do for you. $200 more plus mic stand is the added cost but boy what a time saver.

[skally]

Thank you everyone for such a quick reply! About a year ago a started to take up "audio" as a hobby so I am learning quite a bit but never the less still a novice by all means. So I guess eighter item will work for the mean time as maybe in the future I can "upgrade" to a more expensive model if needed.

I guess this all started after I got the Klipsch KG 5.5's as eve thou I like them very much I thought I could emprove them with new cross overs and the Ti-mods from Bob. I think it would be kinda nice to use a meter to see if there is any differnace or not. I have had an Onkyo 808 receiver for about a year now as I have tried fiffernt mains as I have found the Klipsch to more my liking, esp. for HT that is. Its just that the KG's see you need a bit more "power" per say to run, or at least in my mind that is, so I thought I would try the new "make over" per say first to see what it may improve. I have always used Audyssey MultEQ to do all the setting for me but I have found I always like to tweek it a bit more to my liking... so "hence" the SPL meter .

THe next step may be looking into getting an external amp for the mains... maybe that is. I have read & been told an amp will pretty much little for what I want unless I want to listen to LOUD... but thats a differnt story .

Once again... thanks everyone for the help and have a great day!!

Jeff

[muel]

Sorry... little late but I wanted to throw in the idea of Audio Tools by Studio Six for anyone who has an iPhone or iPad. For 20 bucks it turns your iphone into a SPL meter that seems to work at least as well as the Radio Shack model. It has a lot more features with the basic version and lots of add ons.

I just got this not long ago so I haven't used it much and I have barely begun to learn HOW to use all that it can do.

[skally]

Funny you mjust posted that as I was reading a little up on it. My daughter has an I-phone & pad so I may look into that. I'm sure I may be quite wrong here but just to my limted knowledge I can only assume the actual meters would be better thou... just as in my profession ( other trade that is) it comes down pretty much "use the right tool for the right job"... worth a shot maybe.

[garyrc]

If I keep the music or movie at 85 or so my ears don't ring after a movie. I purchased it on Flebay for 20 bucks so no big loss. But I have noticed I donot play the system as loud after I got the meter and read the chart for level of exposure.

Duration is an important factor in how much your ears can take (see gov. chart); a few peaks at above 100 dB should not be a problem if they are brief. Orchestral loud passages are less of a problem than Rock (because loud Rock is more uniform, and orchestral is more variable). Paul Klipsch used to say you need brief peaks of 115 dB at your ears to simulate the blood stirring levels of a full orchestra, but he cautioned that the the unread peaks will be about 13 dB higher than what a VU style needle (as on the analog reading Radio Shack meter) will read due to needle lag (the needle doesn't ever reach the brief peak). So, I guess this means that if there is something with a sharp leading edge (cymbal crash, drum beat, rim shot ??) that reads 102 dB, it could be as high as 115 db. I don't know if the digital reading meters get around this, but I heard that they don't do as good a job with the peaks of real music as they do with the noise signals used for level setting. I use the "fast" "C" setting to look at peaks, but even that probably reads 13 dB or so too low for those brief peaks.

At the time of The Empire Strikes Back (antediluvian for some of you) THX measured the loud passages at around 108 dB, with 110 dB in the bass, from a designated (average?) seat in theaters. I believe their test noise for level setting was 85 dB.

If I am running a film I have already seen for guests, before they arrive I run the film forward, find some normal dialog, and preset it at a realistic level, and trust the filmmakers to have set the peak levels where they want them. I understand that some of the Audyssey programs -- if properly set up -- will provide reference level (the level the sound mixers heard it at). For movies there is a way to do this, but not for music on CDs, SACDs, etc., because the average mastering levels vary too much. Two cautions: 1) Don't set the volume based on previews/sneek peak. They are sometimes mastered to be too loud, which will make your movie too soft, unless you turn it up. Dolby warned them about this, and they heeded for a while, but now have reverted to their malpractice. 2) Using dialog to set your levels of movies from the golden age of stereo magnetic soundtracks (1953 to about 1975 or later) generally won't work, especially if they have gone back to the original music elements and remixed. They often don't seem to know how dynamic these old tracks were, and the dialog ends up too loud, compared to either the music (Around the World in 80 Days [1956], the DVD version of Ben-Hur) or the effects (Alien). So you play it by ear.

[Louis Bartay]

Thanks Gary

I too looked a "fast" "C" setting on the SPL meter to look at peaks. Usually I try to keep the special effects (loud peaks) at 100 or a little less with the wife or kids in the small den I have my HT system in. When I am alone I bump that up some as I like to feel the subs and guns going off a bit louder. The wife and Grand Kids have better hearing then me. I always wait until I am into the movie and look at my AVR display to see if HD DTS etc is ON then set with SPL meter before I start the Bluray for the family to watch. Now that I have the meter I have searched the webb looking for info on how long can you listen to a set volume and not do harm to your hearing. Buying this old school meter was a great idea and everyone that has a loud HT system should use one. I have noticed by looking at the volume setting on the display on my AVR we are not turning the volume up so much and still hear and "Feel" what you are seeing.

85(100 on peaks) on my old meter seems to be working Ok for us as the wife has said her ears are not ringing after a two hour Bluray. Before I purchased the meter I was turning it up a louder to "Shake" the den and impress the kids. I am saving up for a more accurate meter...now which brand do I purchase??

Louis

[Don Richard]

I have an older movement type RS SPL meter and a new digital RS meter. The digital meter is much more versatile than the antique one. It has a LCD bar graph as well as a numerical readout along with peak reading capability. More compact, too. These meters are only accurate to about 9 kHz because of the mic element they use.

[skally]

Hello again everyone . After doing some more reading.... I have a question to ask. Since I have an Onkyo 808 av that has Audyssey MultEQ would it even benifit me to go buy & use a sound meter?? Would a sound meter even benifit over the Audyssey MultEQ? As I had mentioned before, I am a noice but I am learning . If this is a "stupid" question... I apoligise Thank you

[mustang guy]

Hello again everyone . After doing some more reading.... I have a question to ask. Since I have an Onkyo 808 av that has Audyssey MultEQ would it even benifit me to go buy & use a sound meter?? Would a sound meter even benifit over the Audyssey MultEQ? As I had mentioned before, I am a noice but I am learning . If this is a "stupid" question... I apoligise Thank you

Walking around a room with pink noise playing in mono mode, you can find the dead spaces. It can help you place, and aim speakers to better fill the room as well as placement of sound treatments. This can be tricky, as some of the sound being analyzed will be echoes as well as convergence of sound from multiple speakers. You need to have the sound up high enough to register above the ambient noise, but low enough to minimize echoes.

To fully see what is happening, you need a RTA (Real Time Analyzer). It is basically an SPL which has a bar or point on a graph with every frequency being measured on one screen. This will show you that SPL is rarely a measurement of flat response. An SPL is an average of the entire frequency range detected.