Grass Roots Movement - STARTS HERE!

[oldtimer]

With around 12% or less of the work force in unions, I doubt the veracity of your competitive analysis. Also, without enough people earning a decent standard of living, who will there be to buy american?

[germerikan]

Unfortunately when it comes down to it the people who can buy American ( in my case German ) will.

When the cost of living increases but wages do not it is hard to not go for the most inexpensive stuff. One of the things which happened in Germany was when China/India products came on to the marked no one took them seriously since the quality was not up to snuff. Then the Chinese/Indians not being stupid started producing to near "German quality" for only a fraction of a price increase. Now the companies even have quality control from either the States or Europe working for them and are cleaning up in some branches.

It is funny how in a different thread here free market econonmy is embraced, yet the reprocussions are ignored when one looks at the big picture.

I truly wish you well on your endevor!!! I am one who believes you must first take care of yourself before you can start to take care of others. NWO (for lack of a better term) is here in this day and age, this cannot be ignored. Globalizing, although not wanted by many, is here and as long as there is profit to be made it will not go away.

[mustang guy]

With around 12% or less of the work force in unions, I doubt the veracity of your competitive analysis. Also, without enough people earning a decent standard of living, who will there be to buy american?

It would be extremely hard for unions to organize in most other countries, especially those who are our most fierce competitors. There are many reasons for this including government interference and lack of worker protection as well as extreme poverty, and extremely cheap labor who would not hesitate to take the union man's job. I was making a point that there are people in this world right now who NEED unions. Right now, our country NEEDS to survive.

As for decent standards of living domestically, I agree with that statement; however, making goods in America, doesn't mean making them by hand in America. Automation helps level the playing field, as you can capitalize a near fully automated facility with relatively few highly trained technitians operating it. In doing that, you are paying the few workers well, and producing at lower cost. As you know, technology has become more competent and costs have dropped to all time low levels.

As the imports have to be shipped here, we have the advantage both in timeliness and cost. In my opinion, there is no country on Earth who is more capable of pulling this off than us. Interest rates are extremely low. Our country has an unrivalled infrastructure. We also have an unrivaled consumer economy. It is the trifecta!

Costing this out, America would still be more expensive than imports, but not tremendously so. In other words, it would become more realistic for the average taxpayer to afford to purchase patriotically. Would everyone do this? Nope. Does it matter? Nope. What does matter, is there there are a LOT who will.

[mustang guy]

Unfortunately when it comes down to it the people who can buy American ( in my case German ) will.

When the cost of living increases but wages do not it is hard to not go for the most inexpensive stuff. One of the things which happened in Germany was when China/India products came on to the marked no one took them seriously since the quality was not up to snuff. Then the Chinese/Indians not being stupid started producing to near "German quality" for only a fraction of a price increase. Now the companies even have quality control from either the States or Europe working for them and are cleaning up in some branches.

It is funny how in a different thread here free market econonmy is embraced, yet the reprocussions are ignored when one looks at the big picture.

I truly wish you well on your endevor!!! I am one who believes you must first take care of yourself before you can start to take care of others. NWO (for lack of a better term) is here in this day and age, this cannot be ignored. Globalizing, although not wanted by many, is here and as long as there is profit to be made it will not go away.

Do you embrace the Euro, ot do you believe that is part of the problem?

[germerikan]

Do you embrace the Euro, ot do you believe that is part of the problem?

It is a large part of the problem.

Me and many like me hated that the Euro came and now we have to ride the wave and would like to see it go.

The US Dollar to Deutschmark was reversed ($1.00 =1.85DM) but the buying power was larger. Now we get more Dollars (€1,00 = $1,31) but the inflation rate has increase and at the time of the Euro change people took advantage of it and raised prices. The people who did not calculate hard got run over.

Now our currency is not only tied to Germany but to many other factors which we cannot control and the ammount of countrys getting near the edge of the breaking of the euro packt ( if interested feel free to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stability_and_Growth_Pact ) is growing. Germany was one of the 3 strongest going into the Euro with the German Mark being unofficially designed as the strongest currencies in Europe. Now it is a totally different story, and no one likes it here.

[Zen Traveler]

...Then the Chinese/Indians not being stupid started producing to near "German quality" for only a fraction of a price increase. Now the companies even have quality control from either the States or Europe working for them and are cleaning up in some branches.

It is funny how in a different thread here free market econonmy is embraced, yet the reprocussions are ignored when one looks at the big picture.

... I am one who believes you must first take care of yourself before you can start to take care of others. NWO (for lack of a better term) is here in this day and age, this cannot be ignored. Globalizing, although not wanted by many, is here and as long as there is profit to be made it will not go away.

Good post gemerikan and having lived in Germany I've always appreciated their History and work ethic...There are no totally true Capitalistic or Socialist societies anymore and imo, that jargon is from last century. Human Beings who care about one another and prosperity go through the same dilemmas and those that learn from history seem to carry on...Fwiw, "healthcare" and well being of the people around you should be a no-brainer and Germany seems to have an effective model:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany

Germany has a universal multi-payer health care system with two main types of health insurance: "Law-enforced health insurance" (Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung) known as sickness funds and "Private" (Private Krankenversicherung).^[1][2][3]

Compulsory insurance applies to those below a set income level and is provided through private non-profit "sickness funds" at common rates for all members, and is paid for with joint employer-employee contributions

Insofar as history and how Germany's wealthy handled the situation along with tremendous prosperity, the Fugger Family of Augsburg has an interesting history of dealing with social concerns along with keeping their wealth:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/221452/Fugger-Family

Fugger Family, German mercantile and banking dynasty that dominated European business during the 15th and 16th centuries, developed capitalistic economic concepts, and influenced continental politics.

[Zen Traveler]

The US Dollar to Deutschmark was reversed ($1.00 =1.85DM) but the buying power was larger. Now we get more Dollars (€1,00 = $1,31) but the inflation rate has increase and at the time of the Euro change people took advantage of it and raised prices. The people who did not calculate hard got run over.

I will need to go back to look at the dynamics, but when I lived in Bad Godesburg, Germany from 1968 to 1972 the majority of the time it seemed to be 4DM to the US$ and when we moved back to the US that ratio shifted to the Germans favor.

[Zen Traveler]

Somehow I'm not convinced that the gov't. has any interest in promoting domestic manufacturing. As an example, consider GE's move of their x-ray division from Wisconsin to China where they are expected to invest 2 billion dollars (and GE's CEO is one of the "job czars"):

It's a tough sell especially given we live in the age where technology and information are merging. With the onset of computers and the microchip robotics in manufacturing naturally will take the place of humans in efficiency...For Job Growth here folks need to start thinking about getting into Healthcare/Medical field, imo.

[germerikan]

There are no totally true Capitalistic or Socialist societies anymore and imo, that jargon is from last century.

Agree 100%

..Fwiw, "healthcare" and well being of the people around you should be a no-brainer and Germany seems to have an effective model:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany

No comment other than, we here in Germany cannot understand why this is not everywhere. As an American and knowing how the American system works I am very happy to go the doctor when I need, or want to without the worries if I need to take out a bank loan to pay for it or not. Regardless of what it is!!!

And to the Theme of the thread, I would even go further by saying buy locally when possible!!

[germerikan]

I will need to go back to look at the dynamics, but when I lived in Bad Godesburg, Germany from 1968 to 1972 the majority of the time it seemed to be 4DM to the US$ and when we moved back to the US that ratio shifted to the Germans favor.

You were here a long time ago You are correct at that point in time it floated around the 4 Mark for a Dollar.

When I was in the Army in the 80´s it fluctuated between 3,00 - 1,80 and 1,40 to the dollar was the lowest I recall. The DM really never got to the point where it was over the dollar BUT the buying power was much higher!!

[Boxx]

My grass is grown in the USA

My grass in mowed by an American, me!

[Boxx]

The only audio company that still manufactures their product here in the good old USA is McIntosh Labs.

I may be wrong, but I think Legacy Audio still manufactures some of its speaker lines in the USA.

[tube fanatic]

For Job Growth here folks need to start thinking about getting into Healthcare/Medical field, imo.

Yes, I agree that as our health declines due to eating food with decreasing amounts of nutrients, increasing amounts of harmful pesticides/herbicides/antibiotics/growth hormones, genetic modification, etc, the need for "health" care will increase and along with it the need for workers. But, with insurance companies having a total stranglehold on reimbursements (which are continually decreasing), and the skyrocketing malpractice premiums which doctors are paying, being a healthcare worker may not be all that worthwhile. Salaries for ancillary workers in many areas of the medical field are quite low, and will only get lower as doctors have to control overhead. On the other side of the coin, the pharmaceutical companies are gaining even more control over the medical system. The worst abuse of that is the total liability shield for manufacturers of the vaccines which are forced on our children/grandchildren. Basically, if a required vaccine causes harm, disability, or even death, they cannot be sued (and neither can the doctor or nurse who administered it.) California even passed a law which allows Gardasil (which has been proven to be quite unsafe for many) to be given to kids in school without parental notification or consent!!! Sorry to get off the track a bit, but all of this is tied together imo.

[mustang guy]

For Job Growth here folks need to start thinking about getting into Healthcare/Medical field, imo.

Yes, I agree that as our health declines due to eating food with decreasing amounts of nutrients, increasing amounts of harmful pesticides/herbicides/antibiotics/growth hormones, genetic modification, etc, the need for "health" care will increase and along with it the need for workers. But, with insurance companies having a total stranglehold on reimbursements (which are continually decreasing), and the skyrocketing malpractice premiums which doctors are paying, being a healthcare worker may not be all that worthwhile. Salaries for ancillary workers in many areas of the medical field are quite low, and will only get lower as doctors have to control overhead. On the other side of the coin, the pharmaceutical companies are gaining even more control over the medical system. The worst abuse of that is the total liability shield for manufacturers of the vaccines which are forced on our children/grandchildren. Basically, if a required vaccine causes harm, disability, or even death, they cannot be sued (and neither can the doctor or nurse who administered it.) California even passed a law which allows Gardasil (which has been proven to be quite unsafe for many) to be given to kids in school without parental notification or consent!!! Sorry to get off the track a bit, but all of this is tied together imo.

If the federal government wants to do something to make health care better, let them institute tort reform on malpractice suits, and underwrite the malpractice insurance for doctors.

[Zen Traveler]

If the federal government wants to do something to make health care better, let them institute torn reform on malpractice suits, and underwrite the malpractice insurance for doctors.

I assume you meant tort reform, but that is so far down the list of what I want our Government to do insofar as healthcare is concerned that I have no comment. [:#]

[Zen Traveler]

For Job Growth here folks need to start thinking about getting into Healthcare/Medical field, imo.

Yes, I agree that as our health declines due to eating food with decreasing amounts of nutrients, increasing amounts of harmful pesticides/herbicides/antibiotics/growth hormones, genetic modification, etc, the need for "health" care will increase and along with it the need for workers. But, with insurance companies having a total stranglehold on reimbursements (which are continually decreasing), and the skyrocketing malpractice premiums which doctors are paying, being a healthcare worker may not be all that worthwhile.

I can't argue that our Health habits here in the USA aren't abysmal and agree that there is a LARGE market to cater to the people you mention, but as our population gets older even healthier folks need affordable Healthcare and lifestyle guidance . I also am not a fan of the Health Insurance industry. If the public mandate gets overturned in the Supreme Court the discussion will go back to the public option which I think will pass constitutional muster....Insofar as "skyrocketing malpractice premiums" are concerned, I don't believe it's keeping potential healthcare workers and doctors from the field and is a smoke and mirror argument for those that are worried about putting Health Insurance companies out of business (IMHO).

[T2K]

"FYI, I am not a fan on unions. I think they tip the scales toward China as much as any factor in history. They should pack up and organize China. That would be the patriotic thing to do."

Brilliant concept. Organize our consumers but not our workers.

If consumers were patriotic your movement idea would be moot.

K.

[oldtimer]

Here's the thing t2k. Consumers are workers, workers are consumers. But yes, i am wholeheartedly for organizing the entire world.

[T2K]

Here's the thing t2k. Consumers are workers, workers are consumers. But yes, i am wholeheartedly for organizing the entire world.

If workers live in thatch huts and eat rice cakes, then they won't be consumers.

At some point the standard of living in China will meet or exceed that here, and the standard of living here at that time will be as it is now in China.

To simply, for those that are having a hard time understanding, if I work for $10 a week and you work for $10 an hour then you will find it hard to compete with me in the marketplace. But then, what will my $10 a week buy?

K.

[oldtimer]

My point exactly.