mobile homeless Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 My last post is perhaps one of most potentially positive. Many of you have expressed interest in renewing the vinyl parade, despite the advances in digital audio such as SACD and DVD Audio. Frankly, it's not hard to see why as there is STILL much music to be had with vinyl, many times surpassing anything digital has to offer, this including SACD. If that is troubling and hard to believe, one can also take notice that many great releases just are not available in digital format. Of course, I happen to still think vinyl, done properly, overtakes digital in the naturalness of the presentation, though digital has come a long way since the 80s. Many have wondered about a good phono preamp. Well, the Wright Sound WPP100C Phono Preamplifier has been making some serious waves lately and just landed a tremendous rave in Listener from Peter Breuninger. I exchanged emails and listening tastes and now believe, based on this info and looking at the piece along with discussion with others, that this little $750 offering might be the real thing. I am thinking about ordering one myself. I have always liked Wright Sound for the sonics and value and this little beast (see above) appears to be a giant killer. Of course, listening/auditioning is the only final way to know. This little unit is not really made for very low level MC cartridges but all MM and High Output MC will do fine. A step-up device would aid if one desires a real MC. Tube Compliment 2 x 5963 4 x 6ER5/EC95 1 x 6EA7/6EM7 1 x 6X4 Frequency Response: Better than 20 Hz to 20 kHz, plus/ minus 1 dB RIAA curve Distortion: Less than 0.4 percent total harmonic distortion Input Impedance: 47 kilohms Output Impedance: 2 kilohm, nominal; will drive loads down to 600 ohms with some loss of output level Voltage Gain: 0-60 dB, nominal http://www.wright-sound.com/products/MoreDetail.asp?Id=2 kh Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 05-29-2002 at 01:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Let me know what you think of this phono stage. If it gets your approval, I might sell my AES PH-1 (I should be able to get what I paid for it) and get one myself... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Mike, The WPP100C is phono only...the WPL20 is a combo of the WPP100C & WLA12A linestage. The combo piece runs $1250. ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps AES AE-3 Superpreamp DJH mods McIntosh MCD 7007 CD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connect Speaker Cable DIYCable Superlatives (preamp/amp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (sources/preamp) f> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted May 29, 2002 Author Share Posted May 29, 2002 Hi, Mike! Dont know when I'll be able to afford one at the moment but am thinking about it. If anyone is interested in seeing the review of this piece, drop me a mail. I have .pdf file of the original review, which also includes a review of the Galante Rhapsody Dual Concentric/Bass Reflex speaker with compression driver tweeter (96dB) by ole Herb Reichert. That review is a bit uneven and off the deep end philosophy-wise in places but still an interesting read. I finally received The Table by Progressive Engineering and am waiting for a new cartridge (Sumiko Blue Point Special) as well as different arm board for the Rega RB300 with Incognito wiring modifications. This thing is priced way out of my range but nice to have some perks as I would never get to hear something like this in my home. Have not heard it yet. I'll let you know when I get a chance to hear the WPP100c. kh ps- Ed, I think Mike only has the phono stage from AES. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 05-29-2002 at 02:06 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Ed, Mobile is right. I currently have a separate phono stage. It's quite possible I might end up with a preamp that has a quality phono stage as well as line stages. I would probably sell the PH-1 then as well... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Ahh... There I go not reading thoroughly again! nevermind This message has been edited by edster00 on 05-29-2002 at 02:11 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted May 29, 2002 Author Share Posted May 29, 2002 Well Ed, not a bad thing to bring that up as I have been wondering how that combo unit from Wright Sound is for quite awhile. I just dont know of anyone that has it or has commented on it nor have I heard it. The only Wright Sound preamp I have heard is the WLA12A Line Stage, which was VERY good for $800. Actually, it seemed to me to be more musical and natural sounding than the $6000 Joule Electra LA-100mkIII, which though very transparent, did not have the quality I that really grabbed me about the little Wright preamp. I have to say, George Wright makes some very musical products at prices that make sense. I have not heard anything from him that I didnt like on that level. I wonder how that new preamp of his compares? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobman Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Kelly: I have been eyeing that WPL20. I am finding that the AMC preamp I use with my Wright 2A3's is inadequate. While the Wrights are not bass heavy, I know I should be hearing more than I am getting, and if I bypass the pre, and go direct CD to amps, I get better bass. (Of course, new interconnects will also help, but that is another battle). I would need the phono, and the WLP20 seems like the right choice. (As soon as I scrape up the $$$) Glad to see you here again! Mike ------------------ 1977 K-Horns Wright Sound 2A3 Monoblocks AMC CVT 1030 PreAmp Jolida 602A CD Thorens TD-165 Silverline Speaker Cables Various Monster Interconnects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 What's the Television Tube's task on that Wright Pre, BTW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted May 30, 2002 Author Share Posted May 30, 2002 Mike, George uses the TV tubes as voltage amps. These are high transconductance VHF Triodes or Frame Grid Tubes. According to George, they are an attempt to avoid the degenerative capacitance that result in high frequency deficiences...something he believes the 12AX7 suffers from at times in this kind of application. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted May 30, 2002 Author Share Posted May 30, 2002 Jobman, I cant believe you are running those Wright 3.5 Monos with that preamp! Heh.... Yeah, I would say you are getting a big reduction in capability. The preamp is VERY important! And the Wright 3.5 Mono 2A3 amps are NOT sensitive enough to run with a passive volume or passive preamp. They will lack dynamics and sound very thin. IF you are getting more full sound and better bass with a volume pot, then something is REALLY wrong. Do yourself a BIG favor and pick up a good preamp. While the Wrights are not known for their super deep bass, they do have good bass and nice tone and pitch. The MagneQuest TFA transformers are VERY VERY nice in the midrange. A good preamp will really flesh out those amps big time (as will good tubes). kh ps- If you are using the low-end Monster Interlink series like the old 400 etc, then they are also a BIG culprit. I find the low end Monster IC to be worse than problematic. Others differ. But I would hate to have these with horns. Also, some Silver capable can be more biased towards the top then the bottom (as well as ruthlessly revealing). This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 05-30-2002 at 12:43 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Kelly, Good to see you posting again, bringing tube and analog hardware comments with you, and my oh my what a SWEET looking TT "The Table" is. I have ordered and waiting on my VPI Aries Scout TT to arrive. For the time being I will use my RB300 arm with a Benz Silver high output MC. Later maybe, try to get an Igcognito wiring upgrade for the RB300 arm, and one day in the distant future hopefully end up with an SME arm, and eventually a total SME rig. I have no idea how many years that will take. I'm still an analog junkie. I've been rolling 6SN7s in the Moondogs lately, discovering new sonic flavors. Two worthy of mention, the 50's Brimar clear globe 6SN7GT, and a 6SN7 from Austrailia by AVT. The 50's Brimar adds low end bloom, the AVT mid range detail. I'll probably have more to say after spending more time listening to them. BTW, have you ever heard the 2A3 Black plate by Rogers Majestic of Canada? I purchased a pair of these at less than the cost of a pair of Sovteks and have been very surpised and pleased. I am already looking forward to reading your reviews and comments, so my request is, review a phono pre that will handle MM, high output and low output MC. In the absence of one that will do all, maybe ones that will handle low output MC well. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted May 30, 2002 Author Share Posted May 30, 2002 Hello jazman...yeah, here I am for better or worse. Time-wise, it can only be worse. Sounds like your analog system is in the process of a big overhaul. I have read a few things about the VPI Scout but have not seen one in person. It definitely is a good deal if considering ducats as the only other deal in the area for the VPI is the Jr. I let you know how The Table sounds. From my talks with Mike Paschetto, it's supposed to walk all over the Basis tables. Indeed, the head of Incognito has one now and went gaga over it saying it did his Basis 2.0 in. I'll be hearing it with the BPS and the Benz Micro MC (if I can drum up a MC head amp). As for the 6SN7, I had some Brimars and some Mullards with the Moondogs for audition a few years ago. I liked them...very atmospheric. I ended up preferring the Sylv. into the 5692 (a version I will not repeat again as after I talked about them online, they all disappeared in two months). I have read about the 2A3 you are referring to but never heard them. Send 'em here! heh... What's with the SME infatuation? Did you hear something? kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 MH, Nice to see you here once again. I have tried to post on that 'other' forum but it seems so listless. Anyways, I think I have decided to order that Ella. Couple of questions for you (or anyone else for that matter) if you will. It has been recommended to go with auricap coupling caps, kiwame resisters, and vampire wire. Your thoughts about these upgrades? Should I try the piece alone and then upgrade or is it so important I should build it that way from the start? Also why is a DACT attenuator such a big and incredible upgrade to the sound? Lastly can I plug this thing up via the zone 2 outputs on my 995 and use it to do the switching - all analog - since the Ella only has one input? Or would grabbing the Basie tube preamp and using it to feed the amps from my 995 be a better route to start with? ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 (Current) Bryston 9BST (On the horizon) Bryston SP1.7 (A little further on the horizon) Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 Ella PP EL-34 (Coming soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted May 30, 2002 Author Share Posted May 30, 2002 ummmm..... I wrote you a monster post in that "other" forum about my opinions on this matter. Did you see it? I personally like a different design than the Ella as I believe I have come to really prefer tube rectification, although others dont agree here. The Auricaps and Kiwame resistors seem to be a worthwhile upgrade along with the Vampire Continuous Cast Copper wire. The price is not that much. Personally, I have come to like the Jensen or Audio Note Copper Foil Oil caps for the coupling position. To me, they are more natural and real sounding but...you pay for it. They are rather $$$. The Auricaps seem to be a good choice price wise. I would go for the 600v version over the 400v. Kevin doenst have those listed on his site but you can get them. You can always get the Basie preamp and use that over the volume pot. The Basie with the DACT attenuator is supposed to wipe up the Bottlehead preamp, this from several people that I trust. I havent compared them. The DACT attenuator uses a single surface mount resistor for each volume setting and has the shortest signal path of any attenuator made. IS it the best? Well, it damn good and much, much more transparent sounding than a Noble, Alps, or Bourn pot. I have a TKD Stepped Attenuator in my Cary that was a major upgrade over the Noble volume pot, no slouch either. I would not use your Yamaha as a switching device. Others here wont agree. But inserting this unit, in my opinion, will degrade the sound. How many sources do you need really for your two channel system? Brian mentioned that you could have two inputs with the Ella or Joplin. There is room. Personally, I think the Joplin is the more intriguing piece as it uses paralleled 2A3. Based on your music selection, I am not quite sure it's what you want..but I would be curious and think it would give you higher quality than the Ella. kh ps- you asked about the DACT Attenuator. Click here to read the details of the little beast. http://www.diycable.com/DACT.htm Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 05-30-2002 at 11:49 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Hi mobile, Yes I read your post and enjoyed it. Not having a clue what the difference between 2A3 and EL-34 is, I resorted to the one that appeared to offer more flexibility tube wise and greater power - in case I ever decided to run the KG4's of it. I also know you have that Eico which is EL-34 and rave about it; I have no idea the difference between it and the Ella. I just wish I could hear the choices and feel confident with my choice. I want to do DIY so I can learn this whole circuit, caps, etc. but not being able to hear them makes choosing really difficult. Shouldn't need more than two sources really - vinyl and CD. Could always unplug so it isn't a big hindrance or I could find a passive switchbox. Joplin - 13 watts - that just doesn't seem like enough power? Arghhhh. I want to know what the 'magic' of tubes is but this trying to choose between things I know nothing about is quite maddening. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 (Current) Bryston 9BST (On the horizon) Bryston SP1.7 (A little further on the horizon) Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 Ella PP EL-34 (Coming soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Kelly, I'm really not doing a major overhaul. Just upgrading the turntable, and cartridge pieces. When I bought the Rega 3 TT, the plan was to try for an upgrade of the table after income tax time, but try to continue campaigning the RB300 arm. After stewing over the around $1000 candidates, VPI appeared to be consistent in it's offerings of upgrades to it's product lines. They enable a person to start with one of their lower offerings and add higher levels of performance as money or performance demands allow. This new Aires Scout model isolates the motor and that's a plus in this price range. The SME mention is based on the fact that you can send their tonearms back to the factory for R&R, forever. They will re-spec it, rewire(upgrade) for nominal cost. Their arms are also considered by many to have the best machined tolerances. Fate may determine that I never get one, but it's something to look forward to, certainly not an immediate reality. Of course, I'll be looking for an opportunity for purchase of a specific "used" model tonearm, not a new one. The Rogers 2A3 tubes were not mentioned in any of the tube talk on the Asylum, so I had to scramble for information when I saw them for sale. When I could not locate specific information, I had to trust my gut and the affordable price to take a chance. If you realy want to give them a whirl, I'm sure we can work it out. For crash827(not butting in on Mobile's post, but giving testimony) I also have an Eico HF81. It is an EL84 tube, not an EL34 based integreted amp with 14 wpc. Those 14 watts per channel will drive most Klipsch speakers. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 jazman, please do report on those 6SN7. Having got my tube amp mentioned below I have also startde rolling tubes as much as my budget allows (probably a bit more, but that's the way it went LOL). Currently I am using NOS Sylvania VT-231 which I like a lot: I am really impressed by their ability to create a three dimensional soundstage and the way they differetiated between varoius bass sounds. But as I don't mind discovering 'new' possibilities I should certainly like to read more about your impressions. When it comes to phono stages I am surprised that no one seems to have any experience with the Cyrus aEQ7. Granted, it's no tube gear, but to my ears it is really an outstanding product (especially when coupled with an external power supply). Before purchasing it I also auditioned a phonostage by EAR (sorry, don't remember which model). It was also a good unit-quite atmospheric, but the Cyrus seemed to have more slam. It's also rather versatile as it accepts all kinds of cartridges and you can choose between a number of input settings for your mc. I find that the Cyrus does many things right: colour, soundstage, it is dynamic, it pulls you into the music without getting on the nerves/ears after a while. I am sure there are better units around, but the quality of sound strikes me as so good, that an upgrade isn't really necessary anymore (especially when one has to consider one's $$$). The only setback might be that Cyrus seems to have stopped producing this unit (or they simply don't bring it into Germany anymore), but if you can find it used I'd certainly give it a try (even without an additional PSX-R, though the extra expense is worth it!). Wolfram ------------------ System: 1973 Khorns with ALK crossovers REL Stadium II sub Cayin 743 D integrated tube amp (utilizing 300B tubes) McIntosh MR 77 McIntosh MCD 7007 Thorens 520S SME 3012-R Ortofon SPU Classic GM E Cyrus aEQ 7 phono stage with PSX-R power supply Yamaha CDR-HD 1000 CD Recorder Alternative amps: McIntosh MC 2105 McIntosh C29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Thanks Jazman for your input and don't worry about jumping in - I need all the help I can get. I stand corrected - EL-84's in the Eico - not that that means much to me; it is still push pull right? Of course that means little as well - I am learning the jargon but it is all pointless as I don't know what the differences in sound are anyways. I have begun to understand class A is supposed to provide the best sound and the Joplin runs in class A while the Ella runs AB. I have no understanding why a 2A3 would sound better than a EL-34 or KT-88 or whatever? Is the Joplin similar to a SET design with more power? Am I correct in believing a 13 watt amp will drive Heresy's to about 107 dbs? Is that continuous? One other question and Kelly may really know. Kevin has a post where he apparently rated the different tube amps he has sampled. The Wave 8's are higher in the list that the Ella, Billies, or Joplin. Do you know if he was really rating those based on sound quality? I might lose my mind if I find out I could have bought Wave 8's and a Basie and done better than if I go and purchase this Joplin. Of course, the Consonance series are works of art in my mind - no idea how they sound but they are pretty. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 (Current) Bryston 9BST (On the horizon) Bryston SP1.7 (A little further on the horizon) Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 Ella PP EL-34 (Coming soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobman Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Kelly: Well, it needed to be done, so I done it! Found a 3 month old Wright WPL20 preamp w/phono on AudiogoN and bought it. Should be here late this week. At least now all will be matched. Then I can tweak the other parts of the system, like interconnects, ect... I'll give a report when it is up and running. Mike ------------------ 1977 K-Horns Wright Sound 2A3 Monoblocks AMC CVT 1030 PreAmp Jolida 602A CD Thorens TD-165 Silverline Speaker Cables Various Monster Interconnects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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