KPT-402 throat

[artto]

What's the throat size on the 402? In other words, what diameter driver is used without an adaptor?

[Chris A]

What's the throat size on the 402? In other words, what diameter driver is used without an adaptor?

Answer: 2 inches (50.8 mm). I use TAD TD-4002s with their integrally sold adapters on each K-402.

I also have the Klipsch K-69-A driver that I used before the TADs. It looks a lot like the P.Audio BM-D750 driver in its outside dimensions and in performance.

Chris

[artto]

Thnx Chris,

Where are you crossing the 4002 over?

I'm not totally sold on the Jub's yet [] I'm getting excellent response and sound quality right now with the walls being reinforced 8 feet out from the corners with 1/2" plywood and 5/8" sheetrock with staggered 12" min. studding horizontal and vertical with the walls lag bolted tightly to the house foundation and the Khorns lag bolted to a custom fitted 2x10 corner plate which is also lag bolted to the walls, everything sealed air-tight.

I think the weakest point in my setup right now is the Khorn top hat and I'd like to replace that with a 402 making it a 2-way system. Roy said he thinks I could push the Khorns a little higher but that was with the K69 on the 402. I've always felt the Khorns could use a lot more radiating/mouth area to put the top end in the same league with the bottom. I could be wrong but this issue mostly seemed to be related to getting the Khorn bottom to go high enough and the mid horn to go low enough.

I'm a little "torn" between the various TAD drivers and which to use as they don't spec as low in frequency as some of the other more typical drivers. Those Be diaphrams seem to be about half the cost of the entire driver. I'd sure hate to find out I have reliability problem after the fact.

[Chris A]

Where are you crossing the 4002 over?

Well, it's a little complicated, but the Dx38 crossover filter is set at 400 Hz on the TADs and 450 Hz on the Jub bass bins, (24 dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley filters), plus there is another negative gain PEQ filter on the TAD's crossover point used to increase the effective filter slope a great deal faster. (These are Roy's settings.)

I think the weakest point in my setup right now is the Khorn top hat and I'd like to replace that with a 402 making it a 2-way system. Roy said he thinks I could push the Khorns a little higher but that was with the K69 on the 402. I've always felt the Khorns could use a lot more radiating/mouth area to put the top end in the same league with the bottom. I could be wrong but this issue mostly seemed to be related to getting the Khorn bottom to go high enough and the mid horn to go low enough.

I've heard the same arguments. The point of the matter is that you will be able to cross at 400 Hz, I believe. It's certainly worth the try. Marion (rigma) had his K-402s set on top of his K-horn bass bins, and mentioned that it sounded great. I'd have to second that approach as a "better is certainly better" option. If I were upgrading from Khorns, that's what I'd do.

The TAD drivers have Beryllium domes, and I'd be a little concerned if trying to lower the crossover point for these (amplitude goes as 1/square of the frequency), but the lion's share of 2" compression drivers out there have Titanium domes--which are a little more ductile than the Be domes.

Other than that, the TADs are, if anything, derated in my home application since I'm not consistently using them at disco SPL levels: they should last me a lifetime with no issues. I've had no issues at all to date with anything on the TADs, in fact just the opposite: they transformed the speakers into a delightful daily experience for me. But they're not cheap, unfortunately. I talked with Roy about this point (a bit of guilt on my part, that is, for electing to buy them), and he mentioned that some cinema corporations specifically use TADs in their procurement specifications--implying that some theater owners think that they are worth the added cost - that they make a difference.

Chris

[artto]

Another question.....What is the overall height of the Jubilee bottom? Also, what are the outside dimensions of the 402 mouth/flange and its overall length with the K69 installed?

Can you tell I'm getting close to making some changes? []

[Chris A]

The Jub bass bin (KPT-KHJ-LF) is 39.8 inches high, 41.5 inches wide, and 24.3 inches deep

The K-402 horn with K-69-A driver is 26 26.5 inches high (bottom of MDF base to top of horn), 40.3 39.5 inches wide, and about 23.3 inches deep (about the same with the K-1132 driver installed instead)

[Panacea Engineering]

Art,

My Jubes are 39.5 inches tall. We are running Beyma CP 750 ND's on Martinelli Horns and Dave's Eliptrac Horns, two way passive. I can honestly say that these are the finest sound reproducing speakers I have ever heard and I have heard a few....!

W. C.

[mikebse2a3]

Hey artto

In Roy's designs the acoustical crossover point can be considered 500Hz for either the K402/K69-A or K402/TAD 4002 with the Jub LF and this is true for the passive crossover designs by Roy as well as all the active crossover programs by Roy.

The program numbers seen in the active setups are simply to acheive the electrical drive parameters needed for each driver/horn combination to acoustically crossover in the 500Hz region.

Just my opinion but from what I've seen of your system/room and based on your experience levels in recording/reproduction that I've read in your post I believe you would really appreciate the performance of the TAD drivers.

Is your intention to go active if you join the K402 with the KHorn?

miketn

[dtel]

You would love the 402 horn. imo

A few weeks ago I switched the 402 for a split LaScala tops, new AA crossovers, since it had been a long time comparing, just to see.

I left it like that for almost 3 days before I remembered why I liked the 402 so much and switched back.

[artto]

Hey artto

In Roy's designs the acoustical crossover point can be considered 500Hz for either the K402/K69-A or K402/TAD 4002 with the Jub LF and this is true for the passive crossover designs by Roy as well as all the active crossover programs by Roy.

The program numbers seen in the active setups are simply to acheive the electrical drive parameters needed for each driver/horn combination to acoustically crossover in the 500Hz region.

Just my opinion but from what I've seen of your system/room and based on your experience levels in recording/reproduction that I've read in your post I believe you would really appreciate the performance of the TAD drivers.

Is your intention to go active if you join the K402 with the KHorn?

miketn

Yeap, for the time being. I think I'll start out with 402's on the Khorns and get used EV Dx38 since I already have the RACE files Roy sent me a while back. The newer EV replacement, DC One or Dx46 don't use RACE. And to make things easier initially I'll just order the 402's with a K69. The TAD are kind of pricey and I'd rather shop around until I find what I want at the price I want. And of course then I'll have something to compare them to. I know I'll appreviate the TAD's, I remember reading about them long, long ago and always wanted to try them on the K400 but they just didn't quite seem like the appropriate fit with the crossover issues between the Khorn and K400, existing passive xover, etc.

I think I'll also sell my Belle center and get a Jub bottom for the center with a 402 at the same time ~ which puts the whole thing in the "free shipping" price category. Another used EV Dx38, and this should be a definite improvement for the center channel.

My Khorns are pretty solid ~ physically secured to the earth itself and sealed air-tight ~ certainly not the typical Khorn install, and from what I've heard of the Jubs so far I don't think theres much if anything to be gained in my situation by going to Jubs without going through all the same work with them that I've already done with the Khorns.

I'll use the McIntosh MC7205 on all three bass bottoms, and the Luxman MB3045's or Wright 2A3 SET's on the 402's switching them out occassionally. I think that should sound pretty sweet. []

[mikebse2a3]

Sounds like a really good plan artto.

The ability to fine tune with the active setup is really worth the effort. I find it very interesting what even a 1/2 db tweek here and there can add to the quality of the end results.

miketn

[jorjen]

Not trying to hijack Artto, forgive me. Thought this would be a good time to ask.

Would anyone happen to know the differences if any, between the K-31 and the K-1080-KP? In other words, if one had the K-31's in their bass bins would it be of any benefit to pursue the K-1080-KP?