Flason Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Need some help from the internet lawyers here. I recently sent a guy a check for an amp he was selling. He decided that he no longer wanted to sell the amp and I was going to get my money back. Well, it's been 2 months and still no check. I have written to him a lot, but was getting the "I don't know what happened to it" story. He said he sent yet another check out over a week ago, but still nothing in the mail. I have this guys address and phone # as well as the stub from the money order I sent. What recourse do I have with him? Do I just pester him until he changes his e-mail and phone #? I live in FL and he is in MI, so showing up at his doorstep isn't quite feesible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 flas, 1st i'd try his local cop shop & see if they'll help you any. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Sorry to hear that. Do you have any friends / relatives in that state ? Have you cancelled that check # yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted June 5, 2002 Author Share Posted June 5, 2002 Unfortunately, it was a money order I picked up from a local 7-11. I figured the money order could be cashed right away and a personal check would have to clear in 7 days. Boa, I'm not sure if this is a criminal or a civil matter. If it's criminal(if it don't fit, you must aquit), the cops would get involved. But if it's civil, like child custody, the cops stay out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 If it is more than a couple hundred (like $500+) get a lawyer or see if there is a way to invalidate the money order. I have no clue? Hire a mercenary, that would be good. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 flason, its possible felony theft. i've heard of others getting good coop from the local authorities. its even a possible fed crime since its interstate. i would think the locals would like to nip it in the bud. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Not that it will help you now, but always send a Postal MO(0.90 cost) and sent certified. This way you can get the Postal Inspectors involved and they can at least track it down. Try USPS.com to file a report with the inspectors if you sent it via Federal Mail. Good luck Mr. Phelps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Get the locals involved as well. HIS locals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 I have never used ebay so I don't know exactly now it work, but if it works like this where you send your check on good faith, this is exactly why I have never used ebay. Sorry to hear about your troubles..... ------------------ m00nsCinema to be the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Toshiba SD 3205 (DD, DTS) TV: Samsung 27" Flatscreen COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOXc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 On the MO stub you have there should be a 1-800 number to call if there are problems. It will probably cost more money to have them do this and probably take a few weeks too. At least they can tell you if it was cashed or not. If so, you'll have a lot more going for you when you do contact his local constablery. If he did cash it and if you can prove that he never had intentions on sending you the equipment, then that could be fraud. OR, it could fall under "Failure to pay a debt" but I don't think that one will fly. See Delahanty v. First Pennsylvania Bank, N.A. 318 Pa.Super. 90,464 A.2d 1243, 1251 OR (and probably more applicable) Johnson v. McDonald, 170 Okl. 117, 39 P.2d 150. The terms "Bad Faith" and "Fraud" are synonomous and also synonyms of dishonesty, infidelity, faithlessness, perfidy, unfairness, etc.... ------------------ Tom's Money Pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOOMIS914 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Flason- I have a few ideas #1 Go back to 7-11 and ask to see a blank M.O., I believe they all expire within 60 or 90 days if not cashed. Not that the cashing clerk would have the common sense to catch this here in MI, but worth checking for peace of mind. This is assuming he did not cash it. Did he admit to cashing it?? Not a good sign if he did. #2 I live in MI (Michigan) and would charge a reasonable 40% recovery fee for the amount to be recovered. For example, if the MO is for $1,000, I charge $400 and you get $600 back....This is reasonable based on some local organized crime and inner city gang rates here in Detroit...;-) This is all assuming this person cashed your MO and is trying to blow you off. The authorities won't do anything unless you have some PROOF. I act on mutual trust and a love of Klipsch!! #3 I live in metro-Detroit and would be willing to "contact" this individual for you and "motivate" him to return your money (minus my fee). This could be a true win-win for you and I, (of course, one person would be very unhappy). If he cashed it and ignores you, then blast his name and address all over the internet until you get your money. This may bring about certain liability risks regarding slander and libel. Contact your attorney for legal advice here. If I were you just let him know you have loyal friends/family in Detroit that were concerned about this "potential problem" and that you hope that if the money order is unreturned that he writes a check or money order before a certain date. Hopefully, this will "deter" any game playing on his part. Fear is a very strong motivator for people who behave like this. I am not an attorney (but have many friends who are though) and I would promise to be very pleasant in my initial delivery/introduction to him. I am 6' 4" and 235 pounds and play hockey regularly but am not quite as quick as I used to be. My fee is negotiable if you have a KLF-C7 or KLF-10/20/30 for trade..... ------------------ My system(s): Great Room--- KLF-30's Bi-wired KLF-C7 KSP-S6's Monster cable 14 gauge in-wall cable Audioquest interconnects Niles SPS-4 speaker switch box Niles wall plates Niles in-wall volume controls Marantz SR-8000 Toshiba SD-4205 5 DVD changer Pioneer PDF-1007 301-CD changer Mitsubishi 35" TV Mitsubishi VCR Pioneer VSX-608 Multi-room amp for Outdoor deck Polk All-weather AW2's deck speakers Panamax DBS-8 Surge Protector Master Bath--- Klipsch IC-525's in Master Bath 13" Sony Wega in Master Bath Niles Wall volume control in M/Bath Basement HT----- SE-13HD LCD Projector Da-Lite 52" x 92" High contrast screen Chorus II Mains KLF-C7 Center KSP-S6 Surrounds KSW-15 Front sub KSW-100 Rear sub Pioneer VSX-810 DD/DTS-ES receiver JVC-XV-FA90BK 7 Disc progressive DVD Panamax MAX1000 Surge protector/line conditoner Comcast Digital Cable Philips S-VHS VR-1010 1 Lava Lamp for Ambience Fridge full of beer and plenty of Don Julio, Jagermeister and Jim Beam This message has been edited by BLOOMIS914 on 06-05-2002 at 08:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 I can send Vinny to do a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Ize gonna f#cks youz up! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 that's why the locals (in his area) would i think want to be involved. so that no "3rd party" types do which could lead to real trouble. hopefully he gave you a street address & not a PO Box. in the future keep in mind UPS & such will do cod. cost just another $10 when i sold my acurus, & the buyer even paid for it. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOOMIS914 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 For the record, I was only having fun with this. But this guy deserves a "talking to" if you know what I mean. Boa12- How do you prevent the seller/scammer from sending you a box of bricks in a nicely sealed package when using the COD option???? Do you contact UPS upon receipt of agreed goods and then they/UPS deliver the dough to the seller?? ------------------ My system(s): Great Room--- KLF-30's Bi-wired KLF-C7 KSP-S6's Monster cable 14 gauge in-wall cable Audioquest interconnects Niles SPS-4 speaker switch box Niles wall plates Niles in-wall volume controls Marantz SR-8000 Toshiba SD-4205 5 DVD changer Pioneer PDF-1007 301-CD changer Mitsubishi 35" TV Mitsubishi VCR Pioneer VSX-608 Multi-room amp for Outdoor deck Polk All-weather AW2's deck speakers Panamax DBS-8 Surge Protector Master Bath--- Klipsch IC-525's in Master Bath 13" Sony Wega in Master Bath Niles Wall volume control in M/Bath Basement HT----- SE-13HD LCD Projector Da-Lite 52" x 92" High contrast screen Chorus II Mains KLF-C7 Center KSP-S6 Surrounds KSW-15 Front sub KSW-100 Rear sub Pioneer VSX-810 DD/DTS-ES receiver JVC-XV-FA90BK 7 Disc progressive DVD Panamax MAX1000 Surge protector/line conditoner Comcast Digital Cable Philips S-VHS VR-1010 1 Lava Lamp for Ambience Fridge full of beer and plenty of Don Julio, Jagermeister and Jim Beam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 bloomis.. could you make your signature a little smaller by using a smaller font? it just takes up so much space haha. you just have too much audio goodness for me to handle LoL ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 thats a bad situation and you are likely out of luck. i had the same thing happen to me on ebay buying an xbox. the problem is that it is not worth the $$$ to pursue it civilly, there is no way feds are gonna get involved on a mail fraud theory unless this guy has done it to LOTS of people. your only two shots are:L 1.) call the local cops and file a report. they usually do something, and if it is a big enough city they have a seperate financial detective division and 2.) if you bought on ebay file a fraud complaint and ebay will reimburse you up to $175 (i think that was the amount. i cant remeber as i have blocked that experience from memory). CAREFUL tho' your ebay option expires 60 days after end of auction. kevin ------------------ Two Channel System: Klipsch Fortes (1988) Jolida 202a Rega Planet Denon DP 3000 tt (Stax tonearm; Grado Gold cart.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 Kev, you are correct when you say the FEDS won't bother unless he is big fish. They will only enter the info in a database and act on the bigger cases, but it won't become a big case unless the data is entered. My point being.. if he is big fish, he probably won't accept, let alone cash a Postal MO if it has been sent via a Federal method that can be tracked. It's too much evidence. If he is small potatoes and inexperienced, it might scare them from accepting something with a tracking #(s) on it. It has happened to me with an idiot from ebaY. Every 2 months or so, this guy I bought from defrauds 3 or 4 people. Enough to walk a very thin line with ebaY and not get banned. Turns out he never picked up my $215 payment I made through the USPS even though 3 notices were left at his door. The other 3 that lost their money($35-$90) around the same timeframe sent personal checks through snailmail. EbaY insures transactions through Lloyd's of London for $200 w/$25 deductable = your $175 recollection. BTW, why is it not BIG potatoes and Small fish?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 brett, for cod ups delivers only if someone is there to hand them a check. then they just mail the same check to seller. guess if somebody seller wants to go to the trouble they could mail bricks or such. i have a feeling at least w/ my laid back ups delivery guy he'd let me peek inside before handing over check, but i've never been a buyer cod. could work the other way too as the buyer could had over a bogus cert check or such. just a lil extra level of security for not much $. best for buyers in that it speeds up delivery. main thing is trust though. paypal or similar may be another solution. but buying w/o warranty always has some more risk. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted June 6, 2002 Author Share Posted June 6, 2002 Thanks for all the feedback. I might try the local authorities route before I call in my cousin Vinny. He did admit to cashing the check and keeps saying "the check is in the mail" but no check yet. I didn't get it off e-bay either. It would have probably been safer to go e-bay, but this guy had a track record of selling things on another board and seemed to have friends there. I have recently found out that he owes at least 1 other person money so I will work with him in calling the cops. True, I'm only out $350, but I am a working stiff, single dad raising 2 kids and dont get anything from the ex except grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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