eq_shadimar Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I asked this question in my other thread but it seems it has turned into a belt vs DD debate so I will start this new thread. Being new to TT and vinyl what are the essential tools needed for proper setup of the TT/cartridge and proper caring of vinyl. Please keep your recommendations in the lower atmosphere and remember novice at the wheel. Total cost for the items should be around $100. Thanks, ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 You should get LOTS of advice on protractors, scales, azimuth, etc. Let me address record cleaning. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I have a Disc Doctor I use to dry and remove fluids. Works well, but overpriced considering what's in it. An innovative audiophile really should be able to devise an atttachement for a DustBuster that would work as well. Anyway, cleaning on the cheap(less than 5.00): One bottle of Palmolive or other PURE dishwashing detergent. One hospital or similar plastic pan deep enough to place a disk in edge on so that it will extend nearly to the label. One PERFECTLY CLEAN lint free wash cloth. I've several baby washcloths from my children that I've found very good for scrubbing. One or more lint-free cloths for drying. Old cotton T-shirts work for me. I use a very weak solution of detergent, and wet the disc by rotating it (I use my deft fingers for this, but you may find that a pencil or pen that will fit the hole is helpful) through the solution without wetting the label. I then gently rub the wet baby washcloth in the direction of the grooves until I find a Zen point that sez its clean. Rinse under the tap with the water running away from the label. If you've no vacuum, lay the disk on one drying cloth, hold it down and dry gently in the direction of the grooves. I've no doubt there will be those who object to the above in one or more areas...that's why we have a list. Basic rule: clean only when the disk is dirty. Cleaning by any method also removes lubricant and shortens ultimate disk life. I've NEVER damaged a disk using the above method, though I've lost several over the years to crappy commercial fluids...including outdated DiscWasher brand. Stuff broke down into something that adhered to the grooves, made the record unplayable, and was impossible to remove. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 As far as setup/stylus care is concerned, Turntable Basics was a big help for me. http://www.turntablebasics.com/ Supposedly, record cleaning is only necessary when a record is dirty. I know that sounds simplistic, but most knowlegeable people I have talked with tell me that playing a record is the best way of keeping it clean. And so far, it seems to be right on. A few of the older/dirty records that I have cleaned (I bought a used Nitty Gritty), greatly improved after repeated playing on my tt. However, I do use a carbon fiber record brush and a Zerostat anti static gun. Have Fun, Chris ------------------ 2 channel Klipsch Cornwalls (1978) Cary CAD 300SEI amp (WE 300B's, various NOS 6SN7's) Arcam Alpha MCD cd player Accuphase T-101 Tuner Clearaudio Champion TT Rega RB250 ST arm (Six Stream wire and cable) Benz MicroAce Cartridge EAR Phono Stage HT Klipsch KG2.5 (front & rear) Klipsch KV2 (center) Klipsch SW12 (sub) Marantz SR7000 receiver Toshiba DTS DVD JVC SVHS VCR Sony Hi8 VCRs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Although most TT's have a counterweight scale built in to the back of the tonearm you may want to get a Shure counterbalance scale for the cartridge. Most places have them from $17.50 to $25. >>Look here<< Good luck! ------------------ Tom's Money Pit This message has been edited by tblasing on 06-13-2002 at 03:37 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Hey Tom, Got those Vibra Pods last month and they work well for the CD players. Also got the IsoRock Vibration Platform for the TT, it really made an improvement in overall sound. Having a rock steady table definately delivers! Geeez..counterweight scales, cleaning products etc... makes a body wonder....how deep does the vinyl hole go? Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 "Geeez..counterweight scales, cleaning products etc... makes a body wonder....how deep does the vinyl hole go?" Only as deep as you want, since you start ahead well ahead. Lp's are a tweakers paradise, due to the extraordinary complexity of all the factors that lead to the music. However, it is only as necessary as you feel it is. Like I say...it is good if it sounds good. A word about turntable stability. You can throw a lot of money at it, or you can either buy a lamp pedestal that is hollow or build a sturdy box. In either case, fill it with as much gravel as you can fit and you need not worry about resonance, etc. Done right, you can kick the pedestal during play and do nothing more than really hurt yourself. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Tom, BRAVE man. I hope that comment self distructs! Yo...constancy my man! Best not to reveal too MUCH enthusiasm before before she leaves. Enjoy your weekend. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 06-13-2002 at 10:04 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mallett: Only as deep as you want, since you start ahead well ahead. Lp's are a tweakers paradise, due to the extraordinary complexity of all the factors that lead to the music. However, it is only as necessary as you feel it is. Like I say...it is good if it sounds good... Dave, Was a little jab at humor. But your comments are valid. I'm well aware when presented with a full course meal; I have the right to only select the portions I choose. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I'm a pencil headed music geek. If you hadn't explained, I'd not even gotten it. Anyway, though I've not been in this forum very long, I've been on listservs as long they've been around. Worst flaming and baiting I've seen on this one wouldn't throw anti-skate out of balance. This one is CIVILIZED. Have a good weekend yourself. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Dave, The comments after your earlier post were directed to tblasing's notification of his upcoming bachelor weekend. Your post hit before mine. None the less, enjoy your weekend too. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 06-13-2002 at 10:03 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Hey Mallet... You arrived a little late for the fire suit sessions...heh. Dont worry, it can get heated in here. I think we are trying to keep it civil and it's worked pretty well so far. BTW, that isolation device you speak of actually doesnt always work. Some tables prefer rigid and light platforms and perform poorly on high-mass stands. The most famous example happens to reside in my living room at the moment: The Linn LP-12. The Linn Sondek LP-12 sounds like a sack of whey when placed on a heavy high mass stand. It performs much better on something like the Sound Organzation table or anything super rigid, yet light in weight. It also does pretty well on wall mount TT stands like the Target Wall Shelf. I cant even place the beast on my 100lb equipment rack as it sounds rather slow and lifeless. It's been a real pain dealing with it. Other tables I have had pass through do really well on high mass stands. I dont know if you remember that Lead Balloon Stand. IT was a beast and sounded great with tables like VPI etc. The Linn was a no go on that monster as well. BTW, you never answered what your dream table you will be going for in the future? What are you thinking about? For odds and ends to get your TT and cartridge up to snuff, I think you need a GOOD Bubble Level first of all. Almost ALL TABLES need to be on a completely level surface. This is extremely important and the little round job works great. Also, you can pick up the DB Systems Cartridge Alignment Protractor. This is a very simple alignment tool (that just went up in price unfortunately) that is great for aligning your cartridge. It takes a bit of patience to master it, but once you get the hang of it, the device works well. I would also add the Shure SFG-2 Stylus Pressure Gauge. This is FAR more accurate than the gauge that comes with your tonearm. It's worth the $19 to get the down force right. Another great addition is the Hunt/DECCA Record Brush which works far better than most of the other alternatives. I have used one for the last 20 years. The great thing is that all those pieces can be found at various places online. A one stop solution with OK prices (if not the lowest) is Audio Advisor. They have a great return policy and I have never had a bad experience from them. Here are the links to the above: DB Systems Cartridge Alignment Protractor http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku =DBPRO&product_name=Protrac%20Cartridge%20Alignment%20Protractor Shure SFG-2 Stylus Pressure Gauge http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=SHUGAUG E&product_name=SFG-2%20Stylus%20Pressure%20Gauge Hunt/DECCA Record Brush http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=DECCABRUS H&product_name=2%2B2%20Record%20Care%20Brush I am a firm believer in rice paper sleeves for your good vinyl too. I have a VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine and give them one go, and then put the vinyl in a new sleeve. It's a bit expensive and they add up, but it's worth it. Audio Advisor also carries these as well. This will at least get you going. Dont forget to insert the records in the sleeve with the open side up and not OUT so dust does not enter. I also get the plastic covers for my jackets. In addition, store your records as verticle as possible. I try to have breaks in the collection so they dont lean. kh Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 06-13-2002 at 11:15 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 eq, Here's a few accessories I consider essential for vinyl: Shure SFG-2 gauge to set exact stylus tracking weight Cartridge alignment tool (Geo-Disc, DB Systems, etc.) or you can get a basic one for free from here: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/freestuff.htm Also, most reputable stereo shops that still sell cartridges will mount & align them at no charge if you buy the cartridge from them - just bring in your turntable! A "test" record to check cartridge setup - preferably one with a smooth (grooveless) area reserved for checking anti-skating. Many tonearms including good ones aren't calibrated that well for anti-skating and the test record will let you set it perfect for almost any kind of tonearm. Round bubble level (any turntable must be level) Carbon fiber record brush for dry-cleaning just before play Any good stylus cleaning fluid (to melt off vinyl debris), just knocking the dust off isn't good enough. Zerostat anti-static gun (they last almost forever, bought mine in the late 70's - still works like new) Consider buying good LP inner sleeves, either plastic lined or rice paper. The cheap paper sleeves most LP's come with just continually deposit debris and scuff the LP's up. If the factory inner sleeve has any kind of printing on it you may want to save them if you have any collectible LP's, if they are plain cheap paper just toss 'em! Good sleeves help the LP stay cleaner longer and dissipate static. Good luck & enjoy your vinyl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Do you read the posts above yours? heh.... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Well, where d'ya think he got the ideas? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Sorry, but if you look at the times of the posts (and edits) I was composing mine while MH was EDITING his post. When I read the thread MH's post looked like this: "Hey Mallet... You arrived a little late for the fire suit sessions...heh. Dont worry, it can get heated in here. I think we are trying to keep it civil and it's worked pretty well so far. BTW, that isolation device you speak of actually doesnt always work. Some tables prefer rigid and light platforms and perform poorly on high-mass stands. The most famous example happens to reside in my living room at the moment: The Linn LP-12. The Linn Sondek LP-12 sounds like a sack of whey when placed on a heavy high mass stand. It performs much better on something like the Sound Organzation table or anything super rigid, yet light in weight. It also does pretty well on wall mount TT stands like the Target Wall Shelf. I cant even place the beast on my 100lb equipment rack as it sounds rather slow and lifeless. It's been a real pain dealing with it. Other tables I have had pass through do really well on high mass stands. I dont know if you remember that Lead Balloon Stand. IT was a beast and sounded great with tables like VPI etc. The Linn was a no go on that monster as well. BTW, you never answered what your dream table you will be going for in the future? What are you thinking about?" MH's list of suggestions were not posted when I read this thread, the suggestions and ideas were mine from my own experience and intended to help eq_shadimar, not become fodder for accusations of plagiarism. Anyone who doubts my experience is welcome to come by my house to listen to my system and/or watch me tear down and rebuild my Linn Sondek LP12 for giggles. Joke or no joke be careful what your text infers, I've read numerous threads where MH gets quite indignant when someone questions HIS knowledge. FINI: Kindly don't f*cking accuse me of being disingenuous, MH's post appeared to be a just a jab but yours rather pissed me off. Can you imagine why? Aragon Soundstage pre-pro Aragon Palladium II amps (balanced) Aragon 8008 ST amps Aragon 47K phono stage Aragon D2A2 DAC Aragon 4T2 tuner Linn LP12 Lingo, Rega RB900 arm Rega Planet CD player Nakamichi DVD15 DVD player B&W CDM9NT two-channel mains Klipsch Cornwall mains for HT Klipsch Cornwall II surrounds Klipsch Academy center Klipsch KSW-12 sub Klipsch LF-10 subf> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 I think Fini was joking as well... I know I was playing. I know we were posting at the same time. I just thought it ironic that it turned out like that. Knowing Fini, he is only serious about half the time, and during that half, he is serious less than 15%. So dont get all bent outta shape. Hell, I didnt mention the test record! kh ps-You like balancing the Linn? Come over and do mine for giggles... ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 MH: I'm not really all that PO'd but I would rather not appear to be a "copycat" in a public forum. I knew that you were aware of the editing/posting time overlap so I had no problem with that, anyone who's been around vinyl long enough will be familiar with those accessories. However, too much can be read into FINI's comment so perhaps the next time he jokes he will think about his phrasing a little more before posting. I was raised with values that abhor plagiarism and cheating and don't respond well to inferences to that extent. As far as Linn's go, I just caught a hell of a deal on one recently. Picked up an early 80's model LP12 in great condition with Nirvana suspension, Valhalla power supply, Ittok LV II arm, Entre MC cartridge with Van Den Hul mods, and a Torlyte slab with Tip Toes to set it on. Got it for $450.00 plus S&H, couldn't turn it down! I've seen the Ittok arm go for that by itself on Ebay and Audiogon. Should be interesting to see how it compares to my existing one once it arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Audioholic- Mobile has read me right. I meant no disrespect, just teasing: not you, but the posting system here that allows posts to be edited and posted before another's have been read. I understand that the ideas and opinions in your posts are your own. My comment (as well as mobile's) should have be interpreted as "Gee, isn't it funny that these posts were so similar?" I do spend a lot of time thinking about phrasing in my posts. Sometimes, it seems I'm the only one who gets 'em. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Boys, Boys, Boys, Try to remember, someones perceptions of what you say can be more important than what your intentions may have been. You may find yourself being "misunderstood" less. Chris "We learn geology the morning after the earthquake." Ralph Waldo Emerson ------------------ 2 channel Klipsch Cornwalls (1978) Cary CAD 300SEI amp (WE 300B's, various NOS 6SN7's) Arcam Alpha MCD cd player Accuphase T-101 Tuner Clearaudio Champion TT Rega RB250 ST arm (Six Stream wire and cable) Benz MicroAce Cartridge EAR Phono Stage HT Klipsch KG2.5 (front & rear) Klipsch KV2 (center) Klipsch SW12 (sub) Marantz SR7000 receiver Toshiba DTS DVD JVC SVHS VCR Sony Hi8 VCRs> This message has been edited by cjk1026 on 06-14-2002 at 09:36 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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