Anthrax vaccine to be tested on American children!

[tube fanatic]

I try very hard to maintain an optimistic viewpoint, but when reading stuff like this it becomes increasingly difficult!

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/March-2013/US-Public-Health-Officials-Back-Pediatric-Anthrax-.aspx

[Jay481985]

Michael Specter has described the NVIC as:

"... an organization that, based on its name, certainly sounds like a
federal agency. Actually, it's just the opposite: the NVIC is the most
powerful anti-vaccine organization in America, and its relationship with
the U.S. government consists almost entirely of opposing federal
efforts aimed at vaccinating children."^[2]

The NVIC argues that there has been inadequate research into the link
between the rise in the number of children diagnosed with autism and
mass-vaccination programs. There have, however, been a number of
peer-reviewed studies and meta-analyses which have shown no correlation
between vaccine administration and autism diagnosis.^[5][6][7]

The NVIC received criticism in April 2011 for ads that it placed on a jumbotron in Times Square.^[8][9]
The ads criticized childhood immunization and promoted an alternative
medicine website. In a letter to CBS, the owner of the jumbotron, the American Academy of Pediatrics
stated, "By providing advertising space to an organization like the
NVIC . . . you are putting thousands of lives of children at risk."^[10]

Another controversial ad produced by NVIC and aired on some of the flights on Delta Air Lines regarding preventive measures for influenza prompted the president of the American Academy of Pediatrics to write a letter to the CEO of Delta on Nov 4, 2011 and urged Delta to 'remove these harmful messages'.^[11][12] An online petition is also set up to urge Delta to remove the ads.^[11][12]

The refusal of Delta Air Lines to immediately stop showing the ad prompted the Institute for Science in Medicine to protest, calling the decision:

"...indefensible from a public health perspective,..." and "The NVIC
ad is, as one commentator aptly observed, a Trojan Horse. Delta
passengers in November are being directed to the website of a prominent
anti-vaccination organization, one that has tried to thwart national
vaccine campaigns for three decades. Moreover, NVIC has the sort of name
that sounds like a federal agency, one that passengers might mistake as
a source of reliable information."^[13]

While vaccines do occasionally cause mild adverse reactions (and
rarely cause serious reactions), the infrequency of these reactions does
little to offset the enormous benefits to public health that vaccines
provide.^[14]

[tube fanatic]

Jay, the issue of vaccine safety (or lack of safety) can be debated until the cows come home. NVIC at least presents information which will never be stated by the FDA or any other government agency which is more concerned with preserving the profits of the pharmaceutical industry than anything else (do some research on Gardasil for a prime example!) The most salient point about this whole issue is that pharmaceutical companies are totally shielded from all liability in the event an adverse reaction occurs. That, more than anything else, should raise the eyebrows of any person. There's no incentive whatsoever for a manufacturer to turn out a safe product because of this. Parents of perfectly healthy children who die within hours or days of being given the anthrax vaccine are likely to be told that their child would have died regardless. Somehow, that isn't going to be comforting. Also, it's difficult to compare something like the anthrax vaccine with one for, say, polio. No point in debating this further as there's nothing the citizenry can do about it! Maynard

[Jay481985]

Jay, the issue of vaccine safety (or lack of safety) can be debated until the cows come home. It really can't when science is introduced, sure philosophically and feelings wise but then again the biggest spokes person against vaccines is a former playboy playmate which believes that some homepedic remedy cured her son of autism brought on supposedly by a vaccine, while vaccines have the weight of the medical community that does not need to take their clothes off to put clothes on their backs. NVIC at least presents information which will never be stated by the FDA or any other government agency which is more concerned with preserving the profits of the pharmaceutical industry than anything else (do some research on Gardasil for a prime example!) First some vaccines are actually now subsidised because there is no profit in them. Since well it was so effective that it nearly wiped the disease it intended to stop out. The most salient point about this whole issue is that pharmaceutical companies are totally shielded from all liability in the event an adverse reaction occurs. They are not fully shielded, that is a myth. With vaccines though there are known risks with them that the one in a million and the stars align that people can get permanantly disabled. There is a fund that compensates for that. This is just like automobile insurance. Not that you will get into an accident but in that rare case that you are permanantly disabled, they will take care of you because they have a special funding. That, more than anything else, should raise the eyebrows of any person. No not really. There's no incentive whatsoever for a manufacturer to turn out a safe product because of this. I am sure bad press and bad science would also be incentives. Also if the vaccine doesn't work or doesn't work as prescribed would also be incentive to make sure it works correctly. Parents of perfectly healthy children who die within hours or days of being given the anthrax vaccine are likely to be told that their child would have died regardless. Putting the cart before the horse. Its unproven either way for now. Somehow, that isn't going to be comforting. Also, it's difficult to compare something like the anthrax vaccine with one for, say, polio. How so? No point in debating this further as there's nothing the citizenry can do about it! Maynard

Also to note your title is misleading and sensational as it even says in the first paragraph

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) and the

nation’s sole manufacturer of anthrax vaccine, Emergent BioSolutions,

are making plans to go forward with

an experimental clinical trial

testing anthrax vaccine on American infants and children.

Last month,

the Alliance for Human Research Protection (AHRP) issued a strongly

worded, evidence-based letter to the Presidential Commission for the

Study of Bioethical Issues protesting pediatric trials using BioThrax

anthrax vaccine for the purpose of proving the vaccine is safe and

effective to give to infants and children

clinical trials

Clinical trials

are sets of tests in medical research and drug development that generate safety and efficacy data (or more specifically, information about adverse drug reactions

and adverse effects of other treatments) for health interventions

(e.g., drugs, diagnostics, devices, therapy protocols).

They are

conducted only after satisfactory information has been gathered on the

quality of the nonclinical safety, and health authority/ethics committee

approval is granted in the country where approval of the drug or device

is sought.

Previously, many emerging countries did not require local

trials for product approvals. Now, though emerging countries still

accept data from U.S./Europe, they also require some local trials.

Depending on the type of product and the stage of its development,

investigators initially enroll volunteers and/or patients

into small pilot studies,

and subsequently conduct larger scale studies in patients that often

compare the new product with others already approved for the affliction

of interest. As positive safety and efficacy data are gathered, the

number of patients is typically increased. Clinical trials can vary in

size, and can involve a single research entity in one country or many

such entities in multiple countries.

[joessportster]

"They are not fully shielded, that is a myth. With vaccines though there are known risks with them that the one in a million and the stars align that people can get permanantly disabled. There is a fund that compensates for that. This is just like automobile insurance. Not that you will get into an accident but in that rare case that you are permanantly disabled, they will take care of you because they have a special funding"

special funding !! are you for real. Money is the only thing this government or big business care about they would bury you or me without so much as an eye blink if it mean they could profit

im no where near a conspiracy theorist, but ihave no faith in our govt. or any big business to do the right thing without force. dont believe it just take off the blinders and look around.

[Jay481985]

"They are not fully shielded, that is a myth. With vaccines though there are known risks with them that the one in a million and the stars align that people can get permanantly disabled. There is a fund that compensates for that. This is just like automobile insurance. Not that you will get into an accident but in that rare case that you are permanantly disabled, they will take care of you because they have a special funding"

special funding !! are you for real. Money is the only thing this government or big business care about they would bury you or me without so much as an eye blink if it mean they could profit

im no where near a conspiracy theorist, but ihave no faith in our govt. or any big business to do the right thing without force. dont believe it just take off the blinders and look around.

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html

National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program

On
October 1, 1988, the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986
(Public Law 99-660) created the National Vaccine Injury Compensation
Program (VICP). The VICP was established to ensure an adequate supply of
vaccines, stabilize vaccine costs, and establish and maintain an
accessible and efficient forum for individuals found to be injured by
certain vaccines. The VICP is a no-fault alternative to the traditional
tort system for resolving vaccine injury claims that provides
compensation to people found to be injured by certain vaccines. The U.
S. Court of Federal Claims decides who will be paid. Three Federal
government offices have a role in the VICP:

• the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS);
• the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ); and
• the U.S. Court of Federal Claims (the Court).

The
VICP is located in the HHS, Health Resources and Services
Administration, Healthcare Systems Bureau, Division of Vaccine Injury
Compensation.

Authorizing Legislation (PDF- 497 KB)

Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund

The
Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund provides funding for the
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program to compensate
vaccine-related injury or death claims for covered vaccines administered
on or after October 1, 1988.

Funded by a $0.75 excise tax on
vaccines recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
for routine administration to children. The excise tax is imposed on
each dose (disease that is prevented) of a vaccine. Trivalent influenza
vaccine for example, is taxed $0.75 because it prevents one disease;
measles-mumps-rubella vaccine, which prevents three diseases, is taxed
$2.25.

The Department of Treasury collects the excise taxes and manages the Fund’s investments. Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund Monthly Reports

Since the first Vaccine Injury Compensation claims were made in 1989,

3,199 compensation payments have been made,

$2,448,256,199.98 disbursed

to petitioners and $97,111,067.04 paid to cover attorney’s fees and

other legal costs.

To date, 9,946 claims have been dismissed. Of

those, 4,075 claimants were paid $53,605,933.78 to cover attorney’s fees

and other legal costs.

Remember keep your foot out of your mouth.

[Mallette]

Jay, you are a rather amazing young man.

Dave

[LarryC]

Is this really serious? Mass vaccination programs can get perpetrators into really serious trouble, like the swine flu fiasco. Spread enough vaccines around, and you get more morbidity and mortality than the original threat ever produces. This feels like anti-terrorism run amok and the US military has foolishly climbed aboard. Is Dick Cheney close behind?

I do NOT think there should be a pediatric trial for threats that exist almost entirely only in the imagination. This is classic groupthink, and, yes, I know, its momentum is very hard to reverse. At least until after several unnecesary deaths and no anthrax.

What's the matter with cipro PRN?

[tube fanatic]

Just some questions Jay: Would you offer your infant or young child as a test subject for this vaccine? Would you allow your 12 year old child to make the decision to be given this vaccine in school without your knowledge or permission? If your child died shortly after receiving this vaccine, would you have an autopsy performed to determine the true cause of his/her death? And when proven to have been caused by the vaccine, would you just shrug your shoulders and accept it as the cost of "helping the public good?" Would you accept the decision of the vaccine compensation court (yes, a court has to approve all claims) if they refused to let you file a claim? Maynard

[Marvel]

It's sad that attorneys had to get involved, so the claimants could get their money. By then the damage has already been done anyway.

[Jay481985]

Just some questions Jay: Would you offer your infant or young child as a test subject for this vaccine? Would you allow your 12 year old child to make the decision to be given this vaccine in school without your knowledge or permission? If your child died shortly after receiving this vaccine, would you have an autopsy performed to determine the true cause of his/her death? And when proven to have been caused by the vaccine, would you just shrug your shoulders and accept it as the cost of "helping the public good?" Would you accept the decision of the vaccine compensation court (yes, a court has to approve all claims) if they refused to let you file a claim? Maynard

I love how strawmans are always taking into account of a scenario.

Would I allow my infant or young child. I do not have one and do not see on in the foreseeable future.

Would I allow my 12 year old child to make the decision to be given this vaccine in school without your knowledge or permission. I am pretty sure in parentis loco does not allow the school to give the vaccine and I doubt any 12 year old would want to take any vaccine. From what I remember if I recall correctly is that the anthrax vaccine is one injection but many similar to the rabies.

Another note this makes no logical sense. "Would you allow your 12 year old child to make the decision to be given this vaccine in school without your knowledge or permission? " How can I allow anything if not for my knowledge or permission. It fails the if then logic.

If your child died shortly after receiving this vaccine, would you have an autopsy performed to determine the true cause of his/her death? Absolutely, are you kidding me? I worked for one of the best medical examiners officers in the world for one summer during college. They if they suspect anything will even do beyond the normal panels and do genome testing. Surprisingly most "weird" deaths are fully attributed to slight variations or "mutations" of certain genomes.

And when proven to have been caused by the vaccine, would you just shrug
your shoulders and accept it as the cost of "helping the public good? Remember the compensation fund?..... Also remember science is given on good good science. Bad science is bad. I would publish or get published the comprehensive reasos why the vaccine is inherently dangerous. Then again if the information is subjective I would logically approach it.

Do you realize how many medications have to be taken off the market not because if used correctly but because of human stupidity. There are soo many medications such as dilaudid that can only be really used in a hospital setting because drinking, even a few beers while on that medication can cause respiratory failure. Want to know? Cause I've seen the dead bodies from overdoses of everything even evil dihydrogen monoxide.

Also your premise is heavily coercise at minimum. You expect the medication to fail and not work properly and hurt/kill people. I get it, you are afraid of certain things. You like things to stay the same. Do you know other medication stories. Do you realize how a good percentage of medical knowledge today unfortunately was obtained by the concentration camps or japanese death camps like unit 731? How about animal research. Its not rainbow and butterflies and PETA has in some aspects legitimate claims. But all that is for the advancement for human beings. I love how everything is good for people as long as it does not apply to them.

This clip highlights what I am talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LR0IMVFpsnI#t=549s

Do you know the story of penicillian? Not the it grew on an apple but the first patient treated with it was a person who had a rose throne prick him in the cheek and got infected. They only had 3 or so days doses and in those three days his infection got better. But they ran out of medication and he died. Its a sad story and a reminder of why people make medicines and the reality that people die.

Would you accept the decision of the vaccine compensation court (yes, a
court has to approve all claims) if they refused to let you file a
claim? So now your premise is that the courts are biased and unfair. Does that apply to all courts? Do you not believe in the criminal justice system now? I mean I do, I did a two semester work study at the 2nd district court of appeals. I get how the system works, do you?

[odysseyrevolver]

Soylent green is people

[Jay481985]

It's sad that attorneys had to get involved, so the claimants could get their money. By then the damage has already been done anyway.

I think its worse that there are many people that claim their child received autism after a vaccination just to try and get money.

[Marvel]

It's sad that attorneys had to get involved, so the claimants could get their money. By then the damage has already been done anyway.

I think its worse that there are many people that claim their child received autism after a vaccination just to try and get money.

Fraud is indeed bad. What isn't mentioned is which claims are for autism. Vaccines can and do cause other injury or death in some people. What I am saying is that the process should be set up to judge accurately and impartially the cause/effect without getting attorneys involved.

Bruce

[Jay481985]

It's sad that attorneys had to get involved, so the claimants could get their money. By then the damage has already been done anyway.

I think its worse that there are many people that claim their child received autism after a vaccination just to try and get money.

Fraud is indeed bad. What isn't mentioned is which claims are for autism. Vaccines can and do cause other injury or death in some people. What I am saying is that the process should be set up to judge accurately and impartially the cause/effect without getting attorneys involved.

Bruce

Autism is a vague and "new" disease (its not new but its being medically subjected now as before other diseases such as polio and small pox were more of a concern) currently. The spectrum is pretty diverse from absolutely non functional to highly functional and some even in savant range.

The level of vaccines causing injury and death is low. Comparatively to the amount that receive it and even to the numbers that I put out before

Since the first Vaccine Injury Compensation claims were made in 1989,

3,199 compensation payments have been made,

$2,448,256,199.98 disbursed

to petitioners and $97,111,067.04 paid to cover attorney’s fees and

other legal costs.

To date, 9,946 claims have been dismissed. Of

those, 4,075 claimants were paid $53,605,933.78 to cover attorney’s fees

and other legal costs.

As for the cause/effect I think you are looking at attorneys in just one light. They are there to make sure that you understand or atleast understand to a higher degree than when you do it alone. Our system is set up to have both sides fight or even just negotiate. Its not that attorneys are inherently bad, its is just the system we have.

Also remember the vaccine people are from the medical field. How would someone who devotes their life to the medical field accurate judge the worth of one person's life?

[Marvel]

Also remember the vaccine people are from the medical field. How would someone who devotes their life to the medical field accurate judge the worth of one person's life?

And attorneys can accurately judge the worth of a human life? Nice...

[Jay481985]

Also remember the vaccine people are from the medical field. How would someone who devotes their life to the medical field accurate judge the worth of one person's life?

And attorneys can accurately judge the worth of a human life? Nice...

If you want to be truthful and cynical, pretty much. But then again are they better than the medical community?