Digital vs analog

[Chris A]

The earlier CD has more dynamic range. It's interesting to see numbers that confirm listening impressions.

If you type in the name of a long-time famous group or artist, then punch the column heading "Year", it will sort by ascending year of release.

It's almost hysterical: The term "remastered disks" after 2001 is actually code for "much louder" and by implication, "send us more money again". []

Chris

[Mike Lindsey]

To my ears its not even close!

I have had some very good digital sources in my system over the years, including some very good DAC's, as well as very good redbook CD players (Naim CD5x comes to mind), and they don't even come close to my vinyl rig, which is basically comprised of 30 - 50 year old equipment (turntable, tonearm and cartridge).

Most of the audiophile albums being remastered today sound miles better than any redbook CD or SACD that I own, as well as remastered CD's (XRCD, Mofi, etc), of which I own many. DVD-Audio gets very close, but all of the other formats are lacking in clarity, detail and dynamics, and most of all realism!

This is just one mans opinion of course (since we're all sharing that), but on my system it is quite apparent which format outshines the other.

Mike

[Chris A]

Most of the audiophile albums being remastered today sound miles better than any redbook CD or SACD that I own, as well as remastered CD's

We must listen to different music. I'll agree to disagree. CDs have always sounded better to me. That's the reason given why the CD format survived (much better sound) and thrived in the 80s when virtually all the big record execs were trying to kill the format:

see http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1416552154/, chapter 1 for a better discussion.

Chris

[Mike Lindsey]

Most of the audiophile albums being remastered today sound miles better than any redbook CD or SACD that I own, as well as remastered CD's

We must listen to different music. I'll agree to disagree. CDs have always sounded better to me. That's the reason given why the CD format survived (much better sound) and thrived in the 80s when virtually all the big record execs were trying to kill the format:

see http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1416552154/, chapter 1 for a better discussion.

Chris

I need no discussion to know which sounds better. If you're ever in the Central Florida area look me up. Bring your best digital recordings with you. For that matter bring your source as well. You'll get a chance to see what a very good, well setup vinyl rig can sound like. You might even like it. ;-)

Mike

[Chris A]

You'll get a chance to see what a very good, well setup vinyl rig can sound like...

Thanks, I've got one already. If you're in D/FW, drop by.

Perhaps if you list the last 10 records that you've listened to (real life), we can discover why you might have a different opinion: my music preferences are in my profile, arranged by most preferred genres first.

Chris

[Quiet_Hollow]

It's almost hysterical:

+1 !!!

[Salvador]

What I have found is that SACD's and DVD-A's cut from the original master tapes are the best I'd laid my ears on

By any chance have you heard the new Doors SACD collection?

[Mike Lindsey]

Thanks, I've got one already. If you're in D/FW, drop by.

What table/arm/cart are you using? I see no sources in your profile.

Perhaps if you list the last 10 records that you've listened to (real life), we can discover why you might have a different opinion: my music preferences are in my profile, arranged by most preferred genres first.

Not sure that matters when pretty much all of my remastered vinyl sounds better than any of my CD's/SACD's, but I'll play along. Here is a list of lp's that I have had in rotation of late:

Rickie Lee Jones - Pop Pop (Alto AA008)

Paul Simon - Graceland (Legacy 180 gm)

Hugh Masekela - Hope (Analogue Productions 45)

Richie Cole and... - Return to Alto Acres (Palo Alto Records)

Miles Davis Sextet - Someday my Prince Will Come (Analogue Productions 45)

Rickie Lee Jones - it's like this (Analogue Productions 45)

Rimsky-Korsakoff's Scheherazade - Reiner Chicago Symphony (Classic Records 200 gm)

Jeff Beck - Blow by Blow (Original Epic pressing)

Thelma Houston and Pressure Cooker - I've got the Music in me (Sheffield Labs)

All of it sounds amazing, btw!

Mike

[Boxx]

Joe Walsh says it all in his latest LP....

Welcome to cyberspace, I'm lost in the fog
Everything's digital I'm still analog
When something goes wrong
I don't have a clue
Some 10-year-old smart *** has to show me what to do
Sign on with high speed you don't have to wait
Sit there for days and vegetate
I access my email, read all my spam, I'm an analog man.

[Chris A]

Mike,

Thanks for responding to my request.

I feel that we often on the forums don't understand each other when talking equipment because we're not telling each other what we listening to. For me, there is a lot to communicate in order to answer the question of this thread. I'll try to break my response up a bit.

Below is a list of BD music disks that I've acquired from Amazon in March, (reverse chronology):

1. Corigliano: Circus Maximus; Gazebo Dances for band (Audio Only) (Blu Ray Audio), University of Texas Wind Ensemble, John Corigliano, Jerry Junkin
2. Verdi: Complete Ballet Music From the Operas (Audio Only) (Blu-Ray Audio), Jose Serebrier, Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra,
3. War Requiem [blu-ray], Britten, Wall, City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra
4. Prokofiev: Symphony No. 5, The Year 1941 (Audio Only) [blu-ray], Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra, Alsop
5. Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake [blu-ray], Ulyana Lopatkina, Danila Korsuntsev, et al.
6. Bach: St. Matthew Passion [blu-ray], St. Thomas Boys Choir Leipzig, Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, et al.
7. Mozart's Last 8 Piano Concertos [blu-ray] Berliner Philharmoniker, Barenboim
8. Die 12 Cellisten der Berliner Philharmoniker - Anniversary Concert & Documentary [blu-ray]
9. Ravel: Orchestral Works, Vol. 1, (Audio Only) [blu-ray] Jennifer Gilbert, Ravel, Leonard Slatkin, Orchestre National de Lyon
10. Beethoven: Missa Solemnis (Audio Only) [blu-ray], Kammerchor und Orchester der KlangVerwaltung, Enoch zu Guttenberg.
11. Complete Beethoven Piano Sonatas Nos 1-32 [blu-ray] Barenboim

Of this list, all have a great deal to offer, but some are superb.

In terms of CDs/SACDs/DVD-As, here are a few acquired in the last couple of months:

1. Golden Age of Harpsichord Music, Puyana
2. Piano Works 1 - Dohnanyi, Schubert
3. Prokofiev: Complete Concertos, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Joshua Bell, Lynn Harrell, Andre Previn, Charles Dutoit, London Symphony Orchestra
4. Khachaturian: Gayanne Suites Nos. 1-3, Andrey Anikhanov, André Anichanov, St. Petersburg State Symphony Orchestra
5. Ravel, Chaminade, Saint-Saëns: Piano Trios
6. Barber: Orchestral Works, Vol. 1 - Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2, Marin Alsop, Royal Scottish National Orchestra
7. Bach: Solo & Double Violin Concertos, Manze, Podger, The Academy of Ancient Music
8. Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No. 2; Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini, Radio Symphony Orchestra Frankfurt, Werner Haas
9. Chopin and Loewe Piano Concertos [stereo/Multichannel] Kodama, Mari, Nagano, Kent, Russian National Orchestra
10. Vivaldi: Sacred Music [DVD Audio] Ensemble Arcadia
11. Frederick Fennell & the Eastman Wind Ensemble: Grainger; Persichetti

Some of the above are good recordings with the general trend that the later the recording, typically the better the quality, i.e., this is a trend that is definitely contrary to the pop/rock world.

Why do I list the recordings that I recently have acquired instead of just the last dozen or so that I've played? It's because I live to hear new music and new recordings of old music that I've never heard before. There is a very large body of work out there with little time to hear even the best works.

Some of the recordings above categorically obliterate any recordings on vinyl and bring a new experience to listening that I didn't believe was possible even a year ago.

Chris

[LarryC]

Below is a list of BD music disks that I've acquired from Amazon in March, (reverse chronology):...

1. That's a stunning acquisition, especially in just one month. You have to be listening all the time, and learning loads about classical.

I'd have to hear the shootout to form my own opinions. I usually prefer vinyl head-to-head, but really was VERY impressed with Klipsch HQ's HT setup at the 2008 pilgrimage (surround P-38 setup, aragon SS electronics), and wouldn't get particular about vinyl vs the music out of that system. Most unfortunately, they have replaced the electronics with yucky things like Integra/Onyko, and now I'd vote for the vinyl over the digital -- and not know why, if ignorant of the equipment changes!

[Don Richard]

It's interesting in these analog vs digital threads we have people championing the virtues of analog by typing their opinions on a DIGITAL computer for all to see.[]

[mike stehr]

I like listening to rekerds

[Chris A]

I'd have to hear the shootout to form my own opinions.

Larry, my door is open. []

That's a stunning acquisition, especially in just one month.

The list above isn't atypical - and wasn't meant to be "stunning", only to illustrate what my musical tastes are. I'm just on track to build up my collection to something that I'll enjoy even during retirement (whenever that's going to be). Listening to music is my favored hobby. There's a great deal that I've not taken the time to hear: it's like an explosion of music since the turn of the 20th century.

Chris

[Boxx]

Isn't this statement true?

You can't hear digital audio--until it's converted to analog.

[rigma]

Cask,

Here is my 2 cents based on my experience with my system.

Vinyl played through an excellent tube preamp to 300B SET amps to Jubilee with passive network beats CDs every time.

Vinyl played through an excellent tube preamp to digital xover to 300B SET amps to bi amped Jubilee is much closer.

I believe to truly compare vinyl to CD you must maintain a pure analog signal from start to finish. If you convert the analog vinyl signal to digital you have lost the advantage of the original analog source and then you are no longer comparing analog to digital.[]

rigma

[Chris A]

Cask,...

I believe to truly compare vinyl to CD you must maintain a pure analog signal from start to finish.

Yes, I believe that I knew that from our other conversations.

What are the last 12 selections that you've listened to?

Chris

[DizRotus]

Mike owns and likes

"Thelma Houston and Pressure Cooker - I've got the Music in me (Sheffield Labs)"

All of the Sheffield Lab direct to disc recordings were excellent recordings of excellent performances. I owned and enjoyed many.

I owned more than one copy of I've Got The Music In Me by Thelma Houston & Pressure Cooker. Despite the best of care, the first copy grew noisy from repeated playings in the DJ biz I ran in the 70s. That record was vinyl at its best. EVERYONE who heard it played through 4 Speakerlab SKhorns recognized the sonic superiority. They might not know that dynamic range, frequency responce, etc. were the reason, but they knew they liked it. Several people thought there were real drums being used to enhance the playback of the record, the percussion attacks were incredible.

The direct to disc version is no longer available new. The CD from the orginal master is still available. It too sounds amazing, but it remains as good as new play after play after play. IMO, a state of the art recording of the original performance whether on reel to reel tape, vinyl, CD, SACD, etc. would sound excellent. IMO, the vinyl version sounds excellent despite its analog medium, not because of it.

[Mike Lindsey]

Mike owns and likes

"Thelma Houston and Pressure Cooker - I've got the Music in me (Sheffield Labs)"

Yes I do! [H] That's a great recording, and sounds phenomenal when you play it very loud! []

Mike

[DizRotus]

Mike owns and likes

"Thelma Houston and Pressure Cooker - I've got the Music in me (Sheffield Labs)"

Yes I do! That's a great recording, and sounds phenomenal when you play it very loud!

Mike

What? I can't hear you. I played I've Got The Music In Me very loud night after night after night.

To some degree this boils down to semantics. All analog is not vinyl. Neither is all digital CDs. Comparing vinyl to CDs is not comparing analog to digital; it's comparing analog records to digital CDs.

IMO, vinyl is a less desirable analog medium than SOTA reel to reel. Simlarly, CDs are far from the best digital medium.

Two tin cans and a tight string are pure analog, but you wouldn't compare that to the worst CD.