CW1526 in a front horn

[Arash]

I have a pr of CW1526 woofers and a local shop has Autotech horns for sale at fair prices. Autotech JMLC-200 is a 96cm diameter La'cleac'h horn with 19cm throat:

I also have Faital Pro HF200. there also smaller Autotech horns for HF section like JMLC-270:

Faital Pro HF200 is tested succesfully with La'Cleac'h horns with stunning results (I read somewhere I don't remember where)

no I want to know if CW-1526 will work fine behind that 96cm horn. any idea? I thought I can build a CS cabinet and then attach the horn to it, other option is to use it in a small seald box in that case it will go ~100hz - 500hz. or maybe an open baffle.

[Arash]

it may look something like this:

[Marvel]

There's a DIY grop on the web (located in the US, who will order the Autotech horns, but I believe the do it as a group buy, so the shipments are rather sporadic. I would love to try a pair on my LaScalas.

I was thinking someone on the Klipsch forums had a pair but I don't remember who it was.

Bruce

[Daddy Dee]

arash,

very cool system.

marvel,

Dave Harris has built a horn something like that.

[Marvel]

Dee - It was Kwing Y Lee who had a set on loan from someone in Chicago. After trying them, he purchased them.

The thread is here:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/151414.aspx?PageIndex=1

He was using them on his Jub clones.

Bruce

[djk]

"no I want to know if CW-1526 will work fine behind that 96cm horn. any
idea? I thought I can build a CS cabinet and then attach the horn to it,
other option is to use it in a small seald box in that case it will go
~100hz - 500hz. or maybe an open baffle. "

The depth is only 18" (460mm), so the 1/4W Fc will be 188hz, that's why it's called a LMLC-200, and the minimum recommended crossover frequency is 250hz. This horn would work well with an 8" driver designed for horn use. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=294-652

[Rudy81]

That should be an excellent horn for an 8" driver. I have been using the Tang Band 1808, as have others, with an Oris horn and it works extremely well down to 200Hz in an Oris 150. You might want to look into how some guys have converted Oris 150 horns for use with a 15" driver.

However, I don't know how low they have been able to get in frequency response with such a setup. You will likely still need a subwoofer to get to 20Hz.

In my case, I am going in a different direction for the 80-200Hz. I would love to try a spherical, front loaded, horn for that range, but that involves cutting down an Oris and I'm not going to try that trick.

[Guest David H]

I looked on the Autotech web site, and although they show a 15 or 18" woofers usable with an adapter, I think it would be a poor choice.

I suspect the response would be limited.

I would think it a better idea to use an 8" full range driver for this application.

Dave

[Arash]

so you think that big horn won't work with a 15 incher? if so how Oris Swing used a same size or even smaller horn with a 15" dirver with stunning result? some say Oris is among the best horn speakers every and some compare them with Avantgarde or Cessaro and Acapella. any idea?

oris swing uses BMS 4592ND and 15" woofer:

[Guest David H]

so you think that big horn won't work with a 15 incher?

I am sure it will work, just not sure what your goals are.

If you are trying to cover 200-600hz this may work fine, however if you are trying to cover a wide range of frequiencies, I suspect you may be dissapointed.

What woofer is Oris using? What frequency range is the 15 covering?

Dave

[pzannucci]

Based on that size horn I doubt any reasonable response under 200hz and not too high due to cancellation. It would be a nice looking system with a sub though.

[Rudy81]

Based on that size horn I doubt any reasonable response under 200hz and not too high due to cancellation. It would be a nice looking system with a sub though.

Before making assertions about possible performance, you might want to ask the guys on the BD-design forum. I am currently working on a DIY Orelo project which is also from the maker of the Oris horn. I'm amazed I can get from 80Hz on up to what my 15" driver can reproduce with an open baffle wave guide.

Certainly getting below 80 is difficult without EQ'ing, proper horn loading or some sort of enclosure designed for a particular performance. But, I'm willing to bet that a waveguide type of setup can do much better than the 200Hz you are noting. I suspect those horn and 15" driver combinations are just waveguides since the horn can't load low enough to do what the 15" driver is trying to accomplish.

I am getting from 150Hz on up to near 20kHz just from my Oris 150. I am crossing at 200Hz to allow for the horn's rolloff.

If you can get one of those horns cheap enough and modify it, give it a try and see what it can do. There are plenty of guys using that very setup.

This week I hope to finish my Orelo setup and I will be able to provide more information on how this open baffle works in a room.

Edit: Also note that the Oris swing is an enclosure. I suspect that enclosure acts as a ported box for the large driver.

[Rudy81]

This is the internal structure of the Oris swing.

[djk]

"so you think that big horn won't work with a 15 incher? if so how
Oris Swing used a same size or even smaller horn with a 15" dirver with
stunning result? some say Oris is among the best horn speakers every and
some compare them with Avantgarde or Cessaro and Acapella. any idea?"

Yeah, the copywriter is stoned.

24hz~22Khz ±3dB?

115dB/1W/1M?

Crossover frequencies 270hz and 7Khz (I can believe this) .

The RS440 from Community has a short horn on its 100dB 15" EV woofer, they referred to it as an 'exponential coupler' . The coupler gave it the correct time off-set and directivity at the crossover point to match the mid horn with its 6-1/2" Audax PR17 driver (100dB as a direct radiator). When it first came out, the RS440 won a best-of-show award at a hi-fi show. The crossover points were about 400hz and 1.2Khz to the Emilar EC175.

The RS440 is an honest 104dB and will do 50hz.

The Oris Swing is smaller.

So do you think it is possible to be smaller, go lower, and be more efficient?

[pzannucci]

Based on that size horn I doubt any reasonable response under 200hz and not too high due to cancellation. It would be a nice looking system with a sub though.

Before making assertions about possible performance, you might want to ask the guys on the BD-design forum. I am currently working on a DIY Orelo project which is also from the maker of the Oris horn. I'm amazed I can get from 80Hz on up to what my 15" driver can reproduce with an open baffle wave guide.

Certainly getting below 80 is difficult without EQ'ing, proper horn loading or some sort of enclosure designed for a particular performance. But, I'm willing to bet that a waveguide type of setup can do much better than the 200Hz you are noting. I suspect those horn and 15" driver combinations are just waveguides since the horn can't load low enough to do what the 15" driver is trying to accomplish.

I am getting from 150Hz on up to near 20kHz just from my Oris 150. I am crossing at 200Hz to allow for the horn's rolloff.

If you can get one of those horns cheap enough and modify it, give it a try and see what it can do. There are plenty of guys using that very setup.

This week I hope to finish my Orelo setup and I will be able to provide more information on how this open baffle works in a room.

Edit: Also note that the Oris swing is an enclosure. I suspect that enclosure acts as a ported box for the large driver.

The bass would not be provided by the horn but an enclosure.

The horn is too small and short to provide smooth response under 100hz. Using significant power via EQ may help but you still will not have smooth response from the horn as you go lower. So efficiency would not be horn like so I would stand by my assertions and wonder why anyone would do this unless they want to provide lower midrange boost. When doing that, to keep it clean, efficient, and smooth in response would require a subwoofer. Porting is not likely to keep up with the efficiency if there is really a good horn load. I think djk is saying similar.

[Rudy81]

Well, you guys are certainly likely to know more about the technical details of the capability of such a system.

I say, if you can, give it a try. Measure the result and see if it meets your needs.

I wondered why anyone would run an open baffle....until I tired it. Now I'm looking forward to completing my project to see if it really does work.

[seti]

"so you think that big horn won't work with a 15 incher? if so how
Oris Swing used a same size or even smaller horn with a 15" dirver with
stunning result? some say Oris is among the best horn speakers every and
some compare them with Avantgarde or Cessaro and Acapella. any idea?"

Yeah, the copywriter is stoned.

24hz~22Khz ±3dB?

115dB/1W/1M?

Crossover frequencies 270hz and 7Khz (I can believe this) .

The RS440 from Community has a short horn on its 100dB 15" EV woofer, they referred to it as an 'exponential coupler' . The coupler gave it the correct time off-set and directivity at the crossover point to match the mid horn with its 6-1/2" Audax PR17 driver (100dB as a direct radiator). When it first came out, the RS440 won a best-of-show award at a hi-fi show. The crossover points were about 400hz and 1.2Khz to the Emilar EC175.

The RS440 is an honest 104dB and will do 50hz.

The Oris Swing is smaller.

So do you think it is possible to be smaller, go lower, and be more efficient?

Interesting I'll have to check out the RS440. I used the Emilar EC175 for a while sounded great but needed a tweeter around 10k. You wouldn't by any chance happen to have a stash of Emilar EC600's would you?

[Toon Army]

What would sticking one of these in front of 15" woofer do?

[Arash]

I'm goind to build my own round horn with natural fine wood with turning it on a lathe machine. is there any calculator for Jeam Michel C'leaçh horns?

[Marvel]

From the man himself...

JMLC_horn_facets.zip