Streaming pure DSD just became possible

[garyrc]

Streaming pure DSD just became possible (see the current, July 2013, Stereophile magazine, page 49). Comments?

[Quiet_Hollow]

Just? ..Possible?

Haven't read the article because I don't have a subscription to Stereophile magazine, but if there is any impediment to streaming the DSD protocol it's simply because Sony/Philips won't release their licensing death-grip long enough to allow it.[:S]

Still nice to know. People with SACD hardware will be happy campers. [Y]

Those streaming FLAC, WAV, or PCM over DNLA will be wondering what all the fuss is about. [:^)]

[artto]

I'm not sure (actually I am) that it will make any difference, especially at this point in time.

I personally don't know of any DSD power DAC (amplifiers) so ultimately you're going to have to go to analog in the signal chain. Or the DSD will still have to be converted to PCM or PWM somewhere in the signal chain. The digital resolution of DSD when converted to PCM is 176.4KHz, less than the highest res FLAC files.

So far, for me, the highest quality playback I've observed is keeping everything in the digital domain, from source through amplification via HDMI. By source I mean playback from something like a laptop PC, and playing the music file directly from RAM (not a spinning hard disk or SACD/CD/DVD). No error correction required, bit for bit perfect. And HDMI because since HDMI specification 1.3a, there is a command called Audio Rate Control. ARC allows the sink (digital A/V reciever or amplifier) to control the source's word clock for perfect synchronization ~ no more digital jitter. Prevuiously HDMI was claimed to have much higher levels of jitter than USB or TOSLINK, which was true because before ARC the sync was carried by the video signal. If no video signal was present as in audio-only transmission you can well imagine the result.

I'm now using a NAD C390DD direct digital feedback integrated amplifier with the optional HDMI module to recieve the direct digital signal via HDMI from my laptop's RAM using J River Media Center at 192KHz, and using a Samsung Galaxy Tab2 with Splashtop app (thanks Marvel) to "remote control" the laptop/J River. J River will play DSD files and up sample to 192KHz24bit (Windows max).

And after all is said and done, the bottom line is not whether the original recording is analog or digital or what the sample rate/bit depth was, it's the care, knowledge and experience (and sometimes luck) that went into making the recording in the first place that makes the biggest difference in sound quality.

Also, just as a point of reference, my Sony SCD-XA5400ES is one of the few (only?) SACD player that can play/will play the SACD/DSD layer digitally. It does this only through HDMI. I find I'm using the laptop more and the SACD player less. As far as analog playback goes, my "better" turntable is a Linn LP12 with Origin Live motor & power supply upgrade, Morech UP arm/Decca Jubilee pickup. This is also hardly used anymore.

[bobdog]

Imy Sony SCD-XA5400ES is one of the few (only?) SACD player that can play/will play the SACD/DSD layer digitally. It does this only through HDMI. I find I'm using the laptop more and the SACD player less. As far as analog playback goes, my "better" turntable is a Linn LP12 with Origin Live motor & power supply upgrade, Morech UP arm/Decca Jubilee pickup. This is also hardly used anymore.

Oppos output DSD from HDMI. I also have an older pioneer universal DVD player that does the same. In universal players it may not be as rare as people think. For SACD/redbook only players, you may indeed have the only one.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I'm not sure (actually I am) that it will make any difference, especially at this point in time.

I personally don't know of any DSD power DAC (amplifiers) so ultimately you're going to have to go to analog in the signal chain. Or the DSD will still have to be converted to PCM or PWM somewhere in the signal chain. The digital resolution of DSD when converted to PCM is 176.4KHz, less than the highest res FLAC files.

So far, for me, the highest quality playback I've observed is keeping everything in the digital domain, from source through amplification via HDMI. By source I mean playback from something like a laptop PC, and playing the music file directly from RAM (not a spinning hard disk or SACD/CD/DVD). No error correction required, bit for bit perfect. And HDMI because since HDMI specification 1.3a, there is a command called Audio Rate Control. ARC allows the sink (digital A/V reciever or amplifier) to control the source's word clock for perfect synchronization ~ no more digital jitter. Prevuiously HDMI was claimed to have much higher levels of jitter than USB or TOSLINK, which was true because before ARC the sync was carried by the video signal. If no video signal was present as in audio-only transmission you can well imagine the result.

I'm now using a NAD C390DD direct digital feedback integrated amplifier with the optional HDMI module to recieve the direct digital signal via HDMI from my laptop's RAM using J River Media Center at 192KHz, and using a Samsung Galaxy Tab2 with Splashtop app (thanks Marvel) to "remote control" the laptop/J River. J River will play DSD files and up sample to 192KHz24bit (Windows max).

And after all is said and done, the bottom line is not whether the original recording is analog or digital or what the sample rate/bit depth was, it's the care, knowledge and experience (and sometimes luck) that went into making the recording in the first place that makes the biggest difference in sound quality.

Also, just as a point of reference, my Sony SCD-XA5400ES is one of the few (only?) SACD player that can play/will play the SACD/DSD layer digitally. It does this only through HDMI. I find I'm using the laptop more and the SACD player less. As far as analog playback goes, my "better" turntable is a Linn LP12 with Origin Live motor & power supply upgrade, Morech UP arm/Decca Jubilee pickup. This is also hardly used anymore.

OK, this opens up a whole subject.

I have quite a bit of music on my server that I never use. I need to

Find a web application that allows me to download higher resolution files for some of my music. I think Google or Apple has a service that allows. this.

Set up a laptop to stream my music from. Can thsi be done using Linux is I want to use the Splashtop app to control it?

either use my phone or buy a tablet to control the laptop

either buy a dac, or maybe go with the NAD system.

Any advice from anyone?

[artto]

Tiger,

I’m not sure, but I don’t think you need an additional
application to download higher resolution files. The music file sources where
you can buy these hi-res files, like High Definition Tape Transfers or HDtracks
often have there own downloader which gets installed the first time you buy
from them.

I’m using J River Media Center and it allows me to rip CD
and save them as FLAC files on my laptop/PC. From there you can set J Rivers
and Windows to play back the FLAC files at higher sample rates. I’m playing
back the 44.1KHz FLAC at 192KHz. I don’t think it really makes much if any difference
but the other benefit is that you can set J River to play back the file from
RAM instead of a magnetic spinning hard drive disk. This pretty much eliminates
the need for traditional error correction.

Unless the original recording was recorded at these higher
resolutions or transferred from the original analog tape at these higher
resolutions, I don’t think there’s anything to be gained by paying extra money
for the hi-res downloads.

You don’t need Linux to do this. And yes, you can use your
smartphone or tablet with splashtop to control the PC. However, you’ll find
that making selections on the tablet or phone can be a real pain in the arse because
the selection points are so small. I use a wireless mouse with the laptop. The
mouse pointer shows up on the tablet and it’s much easier to click on what you
want to select.

The only caveat (for me) is that I find Wi-Fi somewhat
unreliable (you’ll need to connect the tablet/phone to the laptop/PC via your
home’s wireless network). Some days everything connects right up quickly, other
days it takes several tries and keeps disconnecting – and this is with the
wi-fi antenna in the same room. Still not sure what's causing this.

To me it doesn’t make much sense to use a DAC when a product
like the NAD C390DD is available. With the C390 you’re eliminating several sources
of signal degradation, from multiple digital to digital conversions, analog to
digital conversions, digital to analog conversions, fewer breaks in the signal
chain (both analog and/or digital), just one HDMI cable from the laptop to the
C390 with everything remaining completely in the digital domain from source to
power amplifier output until it has to drive the speakers, essentially a power amplifier
DAC.

HDMI now has Audio Rate Control which allows the digital amplifier/receiver’s
word clock to take control of the source (PC/CD-SACD/DVD player) word clock
virtually eliminating digital jitter. It’s the best of all worlds. And IMHO it
blows away conventional linear amplifiers. I have some very highly regarded
amplification in my possession from the likes of Audio Research, McIntosh,
Luxman tube, Wright 2A3 SET and I’ll take the C390 over that stuff any day.

EDIT:

You can also play DSD
files with J River. There are a number of sources for DSD recordings
but as always, it's the care and expertise that went into the recording
that makes the difference in sound quality, not the format or
resolution.

http://dsd-guide.com/where-can-you-find-dsd-music-downloads

[artto]

Imy Sony SCD-XA5400ES is one of the few (only?) SACD player that can play/will play the SACD/DSD layer digitally. It does this only through HDMI. I find I'm using the laptop more and the SACD player less. As far as analog playback goes, my "better" turntable is a Linn LP12 with Origin Live motor & power supply upgrade, Morech UP arm/Decca Jubilee pickup. This is also hardly used anymore.

Oppos output DSD from HDMI. I also have an older pioneer universal DVD player that does the same. In universal players it may not be as rare as people think. For SACD/redbook only players, you may indeed have the only one.

Yes, there are a few more players that will output DSD via HDMI. When the 5400ES first came out it was the only one (5+ years ago?), and at the time Sony made no mention of it. I guess the idea was to use HDMI output from SACD to utilize surround sound while invoking copy protection. The user manual said that playback of stereo SACD had to go through the analog outputs, which is in fact not true. On the other hand, even via HDMI the output is not DSD. It's converted to PCM. And even if you have a player that outputs DSD, what are you going to do with It? You still can't just run it into a direct digital amplifier. It's going to be converted to PCM or PWM somewhere along the chain.

I have a few DSD files that I downloaded and play using J RIver. Even though J RIver can read and play the files directly the DSD file is still getting converted to 192/24 which is then sent via HDMI from the laptop to the NAD C390. Quite frankly I don't really think it makes any difference. As I said before, it's the love & care that went into making the recording in the first place that makes the most difference regardless of format be it digital or analog.

[oldtimer]

As I said before, it's the love & care that went into making the recording in the first place that makes the most difference regardless of format be it digital or analog.

Amen.

[muel]

As I said before, it's the love & care that went into making the recording in the first place that makes the most difference regardless of format be it digital or analog.

Amen.

Preachin' to the choir.