whell Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 OK, so having a 5.1 set up allows me to experience the novelty of surround sound. So it is kind of cool to hear a chopper come from behind me and zoom overhead and appear on my TV screen flying away from me. I'm now in the "been there, done that" mode with my system. I have to admit it has been rather cool. But, now what? Now, I'm back to "home base", listening to and enjoying 2 channel music, much as I've been doing since I was a kid. I'm looking around the room and wondering what these expensive RB-5's are doing sitting there quietly while I'm listening to 2 channel through the RF-3's up front. Seems like a waste of money, and an under-utlization of a great sounding little speaker. Most of my listening and use of this equipment is 2 channel, but I don't have the space for a separate 2 channel set up, so my music and home theater must be produced in the same room with the same equipment. So, I go out and find some DVD-A and DTS music disks to experiment with. These multi-channel disks promise to be the next generation of musical bliss. I drop in the Eagles "Hell Freezes over Disk", followed by Diane Krall's "Love Scenes, followed by Vince Gill's "High Lonesome Sound", etc. After listening to several disks, I find that the 5.1 channel presentation of the music is unconvincing, and ant times, downright irritating. Instruments and vocals that I would expect to come from in front of me now appear behind me, or at my side. The experience is so un-natural that it becomes a distraction. Call me old-fashioned, but I find the whole experience flawed, and wonder if the format itself is compromising the artist's original intent in favor of giving the consumer a little sizzle. Is this the musical equivalent of Snake Oil? Since my Marantz is set up to process the DVD-A or DTS disks in the digital domain, I switch back and forth between 5.1 channel and 2 channel presentations of the same material. I find that I actually prefer to listen to the DTS or DVD-A disk in 2 channel. It seems that I get the benefit of a higher resolution format, but keep the realistic and more convincing presentaion. Is all this really worth paying an extra $5 - 10 per disk (versus the cost of a regular 2 channel CD)? Does my experience ring a bell with anyone else? Are we still waiting for multi-channel music to live up to its promise? Do those of you who find yourself renting/watching DVD's a couple of times a month really get irritated seeing your expensive equipment stilling there under-utilized the rest of the time? Do any of you who have heard it, like I have, really think Pro-Logic II is anything more than a baby step forward for a format whose days are hopefully numbered (again, not a compelling justification for shelling out big bucks for a surround set up)? ------------------ Mike - Livonia, MI Klipsch RF-3 L/R Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch RB-5 rears HSU Research VF-2 Sub Marantz SR-19EX receiver Marantz MM-9000 Amp NAD T550 DVD Adcom GCD 700 CD This message has been edited by whell on 07-01-2002 at 11:30 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Yes! It does ring a bell. I prefer the much praised "Hell Freezes Over" in 2-channel over DTS 5.1. I would be very pleased with 3.1 channel movies, even. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I agree! I listen to my music DVD's in stereo not Dolby or DTS, surround just doesn't sound right. I even think movies sound better in 2 channel. I'm really considering going back to 2 channel only. In fact over the weekend I dug out my 70's Technics SA 404 silver face receiver and hooked it up, blew my Yamaha away! Wish the Technics had a remote! ------------------ http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/MYSTUFF.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 MPGWAGON: Ah yes, the Yamaha RXV-620. I just sold mine, and happily so. I had it set up to run a 2nd system in my basement. I then cam across an old Kenwood KA-9100 integrated amp (with dual power supplies and true separate signal paths for each channel) at a garage sale, along with a Yamaha T-85 tuner (the one that typically sells on Ebay for over $250), and bought the whole thing as a package for $50!! I brought it home, and ran an A-B comparison between the Kenwood and the Yamaha. No contest! The Kenwood, at over 25 years old and counting, blew away the Yamaha. I even ran the A-B comparision for my wife, who, God bless her soul, thinks everything sounds good. She very quickly noticed that the speakers sounded like they had a sheet over them with the Yamaha, and sounded much cleaner with the Kenwood. So...the Yamaha went bye bye on Ebay, and my basement set up is the first to return to two channel. Now, my basement system is not at all set up for critical listening. It is just there for when I'm working out, or working downstairs. But, with the money I was able to reclaim in moving out the Yamaha, I was able to buy something nice for the wife! I was also able to blow the dust off an old Sanyo turntable that has been collecting dust in my mom's basement for years, since the Kenwood has a phono input. That'll be the next project....getting that up and running again. ------------------ Mike - Livonia, MI Klipsch RF-3 L/R Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch RB-5 rears HSU Research VF-2 Sub Marantz SR-19EX receiver Marantz MM-9000 Amp NAD T550 DVD Adcom GCD 700 CD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 My pioneer SX 950 blows the theater out the window! As far as power and sound Outlaw at 40 is the pioneer at 1 and a half! We could sell our surrounds and buy k-horns or la scalas! If we all went back to 2 channel, we would have a hell of a for sale topic here! Ive always went to 2 channel, leaving the outlaw separate for HT! Right now i have both systems hooked up, in the same room! It took me over a year to go back to home theater, because i wasnt really into movies, just music! My brand new KLF-C7 is the biggest $425.00 dust collector in the house! I caint do DTS because if i do it knocks out the rear center channel! I was ganna get a 5 channel amp, but thought, why watch a movie with 1000 watts? I could very easily put all 4 chorus on 2 channel,and sell all theater equipment, ive thought about doing this, BUT id prabably buy it all again so i wont! No one i know comes over to enjoy the theater, half the the time they complain its to loud! My dad said his balls were rattling, thats because i invented an 18inch home theater sub, that was a complaint, and i had to turn it down! I enjoy it LOL! I can only watch a movie so much, i have 105 DVDs and there all burned out! Heck thats 3 or more thousand right there! Considering the room it takes to HT, and what you have to spend, and move around your house, its a pain in the a--! But like i said, if i sold it all, i know id buy it again! I do love the outlaw, but the pioneer is on more than the HT! I wish i would of just bought K-horns the second time around, and tubes, i would of spent less! If im forced to sell the theater again, thats it, ill be done, then go to K-horns and tubes! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWaGuy Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Hi, I find this a very interesting thread as I am basically happy with my 2 channel system, and just starting to think about adding a center channel and surrounds. I love my Cornwalls for music, but have been very impressed with the effects of even cheap surround systems I have seen set up in stores. It seems adding an klipsch Academy center channel and a couple decent surround speakers, and the effects shoud even be much better than the cheap setups I have seen. At the same time, a friend at work thinks the multi-channel stuff is way over rated. He would be happy with one really good speaker and a good tube amp, but puts up with stereo since you can't buy one channel media. (I think he is exagerating, but he does enjoy decent speakers and tube amp.) Hopefully, I will either love surround sound for movies, or after experiencing it, can sell the Academy and surroud speakers for close to what I spend on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Why can't I have both (a rhetorical question, I think)? I connected an old Marantz 26 wpc to my Chorus, and we were doing 105db at the listening position at 1/3 volume. Now, I don't know if it sounds better than my Denon 3300/Acurus 200x3 combo -- haven't had time to compare. But if I like the Marantz in the mix, I'll just add a connection to it from my CD player and just move the speaker connections to it when I want to listen. I haven't plunged in to multi-channel music yet, so maybe I'm not qualified to comment here (but when has that ever stopped me ). Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 for 2-channel recordings/pcm stereo, i like the recording studio feel of music coming from all around w/ full output from all the speakers. this would be the 5/6/7 speaker/channel option. most all receivers like the marantz have the option/mode to just listen from the 2 mains w/ sub. marantz is great on the direct or stereo modes. i like the versatility of the digital processor for this. i rarely listen to music from just the sub &/or mains though. most of my music listening now is w/ concert-style dvd w/ hopefully a good mix & dts 5.1 format. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-01-2002 at 02:32 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Hi All I think it is possible to combine a 2 channel and HT setup in the same room environment. First of all, IMHO you must have a good room design favoring the 2 channel setup. The major problem I see is expecting your HT processor to act as your 2 channel preamp. Most HT equipment is mediocre quality at best. This is what I have done. I have a MC-36 preamp for 2 channel, and my Lexicon MC-1 for HT, both feeding to my main power amps and main speakers. I have a low gain phono switch between the amps and the preamp/processor, with the primary cleanest input is to the preamp. This way my main amps and speakers can be shared between both systems. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Good input, and thanks for chiming in on this thread. Sounds like some folks have create some elegant and not-so-elegant solutions for the "problem" that maintaining a home theater system creates. I'm not sure that I subscribe to the notion that I've created a system that is disadvantaged when reproducing 2 channel music. However, I've not "A-B" tested that idea yet, so I can't be sure. I've love to try a test of my old Kenwood against my new Marantz (or old Marantz against new) and see what results I get when comparing 2 channel reproduction. Or, maybe an A-B that pits my current system against a well built modern 2 channel amp integrated or separates. However, I've not heard anyone give me a compelling reason to wait for the maturity of DVD-A or DTS multi-channel music formats. I've not tried SACD, but have to believe that the results are fairly close to DTS music disks or DVD-A. Boa, you sound like you're spending time in the 5.1 music realm. DO you find that the reproduction of the sound stage is convincing? You suggest that it reminds you of a recording studio. However, the recording studios that I have been in master music recordings in 2 channel (mixing is done in multichannel, but this is with the ultimate objective to get to a "dubbed" 2 channel master recording). ------------------ Mike - Livonia, MI Klipsch RF-3 L/R Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch RB-5 rears HSU Research VF-2 Sub Marantz SR-19EX receiver Marantz MM-9000 Amp NAD T550 DVD Adcom GCD 700 CD This message has been edited by whell on 07-01-2002 at 04:17 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 JM - A couple questions: 1) What phono switch are you using to switch pre-amps going to your amp? 2) Are you also sharing source components between the pre-amps, or have you dedicated the CD player (for example) to the MC-36 and the DVD player to the Lexicon? Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 There was a website that I saw where some guy was saying that the multi-channel setups where just a bunch of hype and a way for audio/speaker manufactueres to get more money out of the consumer. He went on to say that a decent 2-channel audio system with a sub-woofer was plenty good enough for watching movies as well as playing music. I wish I could find that link again, because it did make for some interesting reading. Personally, I don't buy into that conspirity theory about how all multi-channel systems are just a way to get folks to spend more money on speakers. I watch alot of TV on my system as well as watch movies and listen to music, thus to me having the multi-channel system turned out to be a good thing. I found watching TV as well as movies just seem to be much more enganging to me with the multiple speakers. I have tried my system in both regular 2-channel mode as well as the 6 channel mode for listening to music. If I am just sitting in the sweet spot to listen to music, I found the two channel to better, however, when I am sitting here in front of the computer here in my living room (one of three computers I have) to surf the net while listening to music, I put it in full 6 channel mode to get more sound. This computer is outside of the sweet spot. I guess just like everything else audio, what sounds good to you is important. I'd probably be like Jim Cornell if I sold all my gear. I would probably end up buying it all back again. Since I have it and I enjoy it, I might as well hang onto it. He is right in that for what I spent on this stuff, I could have bought myself a nice pair of k-horns and a good tube amp and still save several thousand dollars over what I spent on my current setup. ------------------ Steven Konopa Fredericksburg, VA Denon AVR3802 (Receiver) RF-7 (Fronts) RC-7 (Center) RC-7 (Rear) RS-7 (A Surrounds) Infinity RS2000.5 (B Surrounds - recycled) REL Storm III (Subwoofer 1) Yamaha YST-SW40 (Subwoofer 2 - Recycled) JVC XV-S65GD (DVD) Sharp DX-200 (CD - ancient) RCA DWD490RE (DirecTV/Ultimate TV receiver) Sharp 32 inch (TV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I do enjoy the HT, AND WILL HANG ON TO IT as not to buy it again! It would be the third time, after the second time im done LOL! My RS-32s id like to keep, so i think i can keep it all! I enjoy the Pioneer SX 950, also the outlaw HT in the same room! I do enjoy movies, its just not an everyday event! I LOVE music, even on the outlaw with the 18inch sub at times just to add overkill! But always think, you could have K-horns in place of theater! For less!!! Im not sorry i got into HT, i can only watch so many movies! LOL Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Yeah, I'll keep mine too. I'll move my Kg's to the front,unbox my SF1's for rears My Scala's are going two channel only with my other 70's gear. I'll use my Technics SA-404 receiver,Teac Cassette, Kenwood KD3070 TT, Yamaha CD player and Pioneer 8 track (just kidding). I already have my 70's stuff unboxed wife is out looking for suitable shelving now. I haven't used my turntable in 15 years! ------------------ http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/MYSTUFF.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 As long as the wife approves, there is nothing wrong with HT and 2 channel systems in one room! 2 separate systems! Does anyone know where to get a belt for a 1975 teac reel to reel! Id like to get it going again! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I'm in the same boat here. I have always been a 2-channel guy that loves movies. I am hoping to use my La Scala's for both HT and 2-channel like J-Malotky. My plan is to have an integrated tube amp (Eico HF-81?) with my TT/Phono Stage and CD player (to be named later) as sources for the 2-channel system. I can then swap out the speaker wire in the back of the La Scala's depending on the system. The other thought I'm tinkering with is purchasing a couple of low-watt SET monoblocks and running preouts from the Denon for main left and right, then using my Acurus A200X3 to power the center and rears. This way I can continue to use the SVS for all sources (with the ICBM) and still have the tubes (albeit with SS preamp) for 2-channel. This may cause a problem however when trying to balance the channel levels (3.5w vs 200w) for HT use. I may end up doing it this way until I can get a separate preamp for the monoblocks. Anyway, good thread here. Keep the input coming... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Ok....... Got my "Old Stuff" all hooked up. Put Beatles 65 album on the old Kenwood. WOW!!! So warm and natural. My 18 year old daughter does not remember ever hearing a record or seeing a turntable do it's thing! ------------------ http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/MYSTUFF.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Oh yea should i add 2 channel also does not have DTS ES PRO LOGIC THX and ETC for ever upgrading! Id like to see a 2 channel DTS reciever, id better shut up, i dont want to throw new ideas into people, for a necessary upgrade LOL! Dam man, i bought my outlaw new, and i was already out of date NO ES! I DO LIKE THE DIGITAL, WHY DIDNT THEY KEEP IT ONLY DIGITAL LOL!! I guess not, it has to be ES DTS PRO2, like anyone would really use it all come on LOL! On 2 channel, set it up, your done forever, only to maybe upgrade to a tube amp, or who knows LOL! K-Horns? Whatll be next a 3inch DVD player, or a unit that pictures the movie from the human brain, leaving out a DVD? See your thoughts on TV? Have company over, and theres a fine chick with them, wife turns on the TV and your in the middle of WHOOPIE with her LOL!! On the sony reciever i had, the 5 channel mode was awesome as he--! 110 watts X5, but the unit was ready to smoke! So, in the meantime the outlaw stays as is, and the 2 channel stays, untill it finally quits, the pioneer is 27 or so years old! Have fun, Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 I use Outlaw 1050s for Home Theater and think they are terrific. I also have a fantastic modified Sony 775 SACD player which sounds great using my Klipschorns and LaScalas. I do use a Dynaco PAS-4 tube preamp with stereo LPs and CDs (which I hype via Perpetual Tech gear)into the Outlaw's direct inputs. Everything sounds great! ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Doug To answer your two questions. 1) I do not know the name of the unit. It is behind my amps and there is no easy way to get at them without removing the amp from the cabinet. I tried to find the paperwork from the sale, but could not find it. I purchased it from a local audio store so it should not be hard to find the same in your area. It basically is a a phonograph switch allowing you to connect multiple turntables to a single preamp or header amp. The unit has 2 RCA inputs and one output. It does not have any mechanical switches to switch between inputs, does not use any power (battery or wall current). One input is marked as the primary which has a cleaner signal throughput. This system works well and does not add any noise. It also allows for future expansion. At the moment I have sold my McIntosh Transistor Power amps (for cash flow) and am using some old power amps I had in storage. I am researching the posibility of tube amps. Whatever amps I use this system allows me to use the same amps in both listening or HT. 2) You are correct with my setup. I have my CD player, tapedeck and turntable connected to my Macintosh MC-36 preamp. My DVD, VCR and a PC connected to my Lexicon MC-1. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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