Kris K Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Im in need of some help.I have recently purchased a new Bryston 4Bst amp,that replaced a old and outdated Phase Linear amp.The Bryston is showing me what my preamp is lacking ( 15yr old NAD ).Im looking at the Mcintosh or Rogue Audio line. I feel that im robbing the amp and KLF 30's from lack of good upstream data. How do the newer Mac preamps rate to those only a few years young? Should I look to tubes or SS? Are there Klipsch owners with a Bryston amp and if so what are you using for a preamp? Need some help where to start looking. Thanks,Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 We're not too far apart as far as what units are being swapped out. About 1 1/2 years ago I mothballed my Carver MX-150 Receiver and went to www.AudioClassics.com and bought a McIntosh C33 preamp and then a Rotel RB-1080 locally. It's not meant for HT because HT wasn't really around much 20 years ago when this thing was built. And although the Mac is older than the Carver, the Carver didn't even come close to Mac and the Rotel. O.k., so a Bryston will probably walk all over a Rotel but I havn't heard a Bryston yet. Granted I bought the Mac used but it works perfectly and looks even better. Audio Classics has a very conservative rating system. The unit is usually is in quite a bit better condition than most would think going by their grading scale. Every Mac is built by hand in Binghamton, NY by the same employees that have been doing the same thing for most of, well, my lifetime. The smooth but quick response from all frequencies is a big relaxing sigh of relief. The bass extension you'll hear from the Mac as well as the articulated thump you'll get from the Bryston will be a chord to behold. The kind of bass you feel and not hear will be a shocker. ------------------ Tom's Money Pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Your choices are almost endless. It would help if we knew how much you were willing to spend and what your musical tastes are. I say go with a tubed preamp with the Bryston and KLF's. IMHO.f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANOCASTER Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 If you decide to go w/ SS mac, My store is selling a Mx130 preamp. It's a larger Pro Logic preamp but still for 2 channel its a nice pre w/ a good phone stage and lots of control, etc..It'd go for about $950 (was $3500 new I think ). WE also are selling a Mac 7270 (270 X 2)amp..If you,re interested- email me directly at Sparkledrive1@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 The Bryston 4B-ST is one of the few solid state amps that I dont mind that much but REALLY improves with a good tube preamp feeding it. The 4B-ST is a hell of a well made amp and very open, articulate, detailed, with an excellent bottom end coming near the Krell in impact. I just heard the Bryston 4B-ST mated with an Audio Research LS-7 and it was very detailed though too clinical as I am just not a fan of most of the Audio Research gear. Still, with NOS, it did kill SS in the pre position. There are a number of options but MAC would not be one of them in my book. What is your music taste as well as your price point. Rogue Audio is ok but didnt float my boat with Wright Sound and Joule Electra amplification. There are others better than either of those choices and you have the amp to reveal it. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 If you can get hold of one to test I would recommend the Decware ZTPRE which I have. The great thing about this pre is that it is so flexible aside from the issue that it has only 2 inputs (which you can get round with an external selector). Out of the box (i.e. before you make any mods) you get the choice of 2 output levels, 2 sets of output caps and lower or higher bias settings. This makes it one of the most flexible units I have come across and means that it will work optimally with a wide range of equipment. I am sure that if you mail them they will tell you if they have anyone using your amp with the pre. They are at www.decware.com Good luck with your search. ------------------ My System: http://aca.gr/pop_maxg.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 New or used, how much do you want to spend, Two channel or home theater or both, remote? ------------------ 2 Channel System: Klipsch Epic CF-2s McIntosh C-15 Preamplifier Adcom GFA 5500 Amplifier Music Hall MMF-5 Table Adcom GCD 700 CD Adcom ACE-515 AC Enhancer Transparent Audio Cabless> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris K Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 Sorry,I left out some important info. Im looking to spend no more than $1500, but those numbers could be pushed a little higher. Many years ago I would have spent without guilt, but today with a wife and 3 teenagers its a different story. I normally listen to rock; from Hendrix, Skynyrd, to Allan Parsons, Steely Dan, Dave Matthews. I also enjoy some of my wife music such as Enya, Dave Coz, Sarah McLachlan. I have a few hundred albums, but I retired them and the B+O turntable to the closet, and have grown a collection of cds. I could do without a phono stage for now, but Im thinking of a new TT (at a later date ). The KLF30's brought the music out, things that I never heard before in my system and Ilove them. Now the Bryston is showing me how the older NAD preamp is constraining the music, holding back a true enjoyful listening experience. Thanks, Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris K Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 I dont have a problem with used equipment.My needs are for 2 channel. Remote doesnt matter Thanks ,Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Kris, here are my two cents... first of all go used...either from a dealer like audioclassics or from a carefully selected seller on audiogon or Ebay... some units I have heard and think are good in that range ($1,500 or a little bit more) would be: Audible Illusions Modulus 3A BAT VK3 or VK5 CJ PV 10 or 12 McIntosh C15 (a great SS unit with tone controls) the top of the line SS ADCOM got great reviews and lists for $1,500... not knowing what features you are looking for it is hard to reccomend "my favorite"...If you hunt hard you might find a Marantz 7C (my dream preamp) for less than $2k, now THAT would be fabulous! warm regards, tony This message has been edited by sunnysal on 07-03-2002 at 10:26 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris K Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 Mobile homeless what did you like and dislike about the Audio Research LS-7 ? Ive never listened to one so Im going on what others have to say. Audioreview.com has good feedback on this model. I have found one for sale about a hour or longer drive from me.The asking price is $600 OBO. Could this be a deal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Hello Kris, Bryston's BP-25 would be an excellent partner to the 4B-ST.It has a remote control and an optional phono stage as well. I think that it is much more suitable than Audio research preamps,which tend to sound agressive. If you're into tubes,I think that Conrad-Johnson preamps will be a better match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Mobile wrote this response a couple of months ago. I used it and bought an AES AE3 pre amp. I like it alot. There is a AES preamp for sale by one of the members. Mobiles thoughts: As for recommended pre amps with a phono stage there are a few out there. Personally, not too sure about the ASL pre amps. Some good tube pre amps that have a decent phono stage are: Audible Illusions Modulus 3A - Great phono stage and good line stage. See them used all the time - The 3A is the best version. Audio Research SP-6C Audio Research SP-8C - Both of these pre amps offer classic tube sound...very smooth and about the only ARC pre amps I like. Still Conrad Johnson PV10 with phono is better phono than line...warm CJ sound. Actually, a good option used is the AES PH-1 phono stage with the AES AE-3 Line stage...the pair used will run below 700. And can be upgraded. They use 6SN7 and 6SL7 tubes in the amp stages. Wright Sound has a new unit.... It is the WPL20 which is a line and phono pre amp with sep supply. Brand new but I really liked their WLA-12a pre amp. Getting a bit up there at 1250. Cary Audio SLP-70 w/phono is a good damn pre amp and fine phono stage as well. I know. I have one. Dont see them too often used, however. They use 6SL7/6SN7/12AX7. One brand I would rule out of the mix is Audio Research Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris K Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 Guy, I have thought about both the Bryston BP20 and the BP25. The amp came book or magazine with various reviews from different publications and many talk about the perfect match that the combo of Bryston amp/preamp make together. I dont know if this true,Ive never listed to both paired up. Has anyone listened to both and what were your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 I would really go with a tube preamp with the Bryston 4B-ST over the Bryston preamp. While others might say it is a great match, having heard this amplifier I can say the tube preamp is a good pairing. Yet, I have to be upfront in saying this very same system (the Audio Research LS-7 and the Bryston 4B-ST) was usurped by a vintage Mullard-shod EICO HF-81, sending the nearly $4000 duo to Home Theater duties. Still, the Bryston 4B-ST is a very nice amp for solid state. But the extra bit of harmonic richness brought out by a quality tube preamp really helps this piece. As said, I would hardily recommend a tube option over Bryston's own preamp. As for the Audio Research LS-7, I think this can be a rather sterile and hyper analytical/detailed preamp and a bit on the bleached side compared to others. Yes, it IS pretty clean and detailed as most of the Audio Research line is, but is also a bit thin sounding in the midrange (IOW, there is not the beguiling liquidity to the midrange the many tube preamps of quality are known for). The LS-7 is greatly helped by a switch to good NOS (I believe it uses 4 6922). Still, this is not one of my favorites. You see them for sale quite often. If you are an Audio Research fan, the SP-6 brought up to date is actually a better sounding preamp in some ways and also has a phono stage. You might like the LS-7 however. IT is HIFI deluxe and not the most musical beast. The question is how much do you want a unit capable of phono? kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-03-2002 at 04:50 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris K Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 Mobile, thanks for your input. I came back from the only high end stereo store we currently have here where I live.They carry Adcom, Macintosh, Sunfire. I was asked how I like to listen to my music and I said that on many ocassions when everybodys gone, I will get loose with the volume and let the neighbors enjoy my music also. Then the Adcom is the fisrt one to overlook he said. If the Adcom is a Stereophile class A choice then why are so many for sale used on the net at a much lower cost? Wasnt impressed with the Sunfire although it is tubed. So what was left for my choices is Macintosh. Are Macs getting close to tube like sound ? I can purchase a C-40 demo for around $1375. I might take it home on saturday at the end of their business day and return it monday morning to demo the unit. The last thing I want to do is fall in love with the first new preamp that I bring home. I dont have a large choices here where I live, so I either travel out of town and possibly face the same conditions or look to my peers for helpful suggestions. Thanks, Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Do not, I repeat, do not buy a BP-20 or BP-25. I ran the BP-20 with a Bryston 3B-ST for about a month and it was dry, sterile, and steely. You have KLF. You HAVE to get some tubes into your system. Buy used from AudiogoN. I have an on-going love affair with Sonic Frontiers preamps (Anthem Pre1L's and my Line 1). I think they sound great with solid state amps. You get tube richness and soundstage, without over the top warmth. Many think they have a 'solid state' sound. Maybe they do -- but you sure don't get the grit of solid state. It sounds very good in my system, and I listen to the same stuff you do, and much harder stuff as well. If you want more warmth, then definitely go with Conrad Johnson or Cary.f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 By the way, the link for AudiogoN is simplyf>s> www.audiogon.com AudiogoN is a community of high-end users. I myself have sold and purchased equipment over the site a 1/2 dozen times. Equipment is rated according to age and condition, and low lifes are not tolerated. There is a feedback system that works very well, and everything I have purchased has shown up as advertised. You can land a mint $2500 piece for half the price.f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-03-2002 at 10:34 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris K Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 Deang, I agree with you about Audiogon, I have been browsing there for well over a year and yes there are deals to be had. Im just now feeling the awful itch to raise my musical pleasure to the next level. Thanks again, Kris P.S. I live just north of you next to Lake Erie and if you invited me to listen to the Sonic Frontiers I might not turn you down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Up there in Cleveland Browns Country. I think it will be a very good year for us. The Defense should be tremendous. You are welcome anytime during the week. Just let me know so I can take a 1/2 day off work so you can get back home by a decent hour. It's a heck of a drive. You might want to bring your amp. It would be the only way to get an accurate picture.f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> Bi-amplified Klipsch RF7s using a pair of AE-25 PP triode amps. A SF-Line 1 loaded with 6922's and a 9000ES finish the front. The low bass is supplied by SVS and Samson. The crossover is HSU.f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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