John Warren Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 1st Q: Punge or No-plunge? I've got a old Guild router I've used for 25+ years and I think it's time for a new unit. it's heavy, ball bearings are giving out, etc. It's not a plunge. I saw a Milwaukee that looks good but it isn't a plunge either. Porter-Cable makes a plunge but it's clunky and awkward. Other than starting the cut, do plunge routers have advantages that I'm missing? 2cd question-the *Jasper* Circle cutter I've cut loudspeaker openings with a router using a trammel point attached to the guide rods of the router guide. is there a better way? has anyone ever used the Jasper Circle cutter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 I have so far never needed a plunge router for anything. Sears has a good little hand router in their Craftsman "professional line" on sale right now...for about 100 bucks(it is yellow and normally comes with a carrying case)...has both 1/2" and 1/4" router bit shank collets included...a pretty good router...is what I use. Porter/Cable makes about the best longetivity routers around...but they are EXPENSIVE...and they have one model that has both standard AND plunge-type interchangeable bases and a case for it all...but IT AIN'T CHEAP!!!...can be found at Home Depot, though. Yes there is a better way to cut openings...and that way is to use a bottom pilot bit and a router template form for the panel being routed...but it requires MAKING THE FORM/TEMPLATE, first. This isn't as difficult as it sounds though...if you are interested I will give you some details on how to make one. ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 07-08-2002 at 07:13 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 I'd personally recommend staying away from Craftsman power tools. I've never found their build quality vs. other brands', to be acceptable, even considering price. For a great workhorse of a router, I would go with a Porter-Cable model 690: http://portercable.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi?method=byid&prod_id=690 Amazon has one, factory-reconditioned with a case (add a 9 for the case, and an R for reconditioned to the model #, i.e. model 9690R) for only $130. I've had my version of this router for ~24 years, still going strong! fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Fini, when are you going to finish that damn sandwich? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickey Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Sorry to say I saw the heading of this post and was ready with a response until I realized that we were talking about woodworking, and not IP routing...LOL I'll politely excuse myself now and allow the real experts to chime in.... C ------------------ My System This message has been edited by chickey on 07-08-2002 at 09:39 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Kelly- I try to not bite off more than I can chew... fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Last year I was in the market for an impact wrnech for the some automotive work. I went to Sears and found an Ingersol Rand for XXX dollars. Sitting right next to it was a Craftsman for ten bucks cheaper. After very close study I found that they are THE SAME UNITS! Specs, build, internals, everything. Not saying that all Craftsman products are like this but it may be worth a look. ------------------ Tom's Money Pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Just realized I myself will be cutting speaker holes (~15") etc. through 3/4 plywood in near future. Should I be considering doing this with a router? I was figuring I would use my jig saw (saber saw) or whatever you call it, - a good Bosch. cutting around a carefully drawn compass line (or carefully compass drawn line). -cut and sawed ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 I have both plunge and fixed bases for my Porter-Cable 690 routers. The plunge base is handy for some things, but I lived a long time without one and could get by without one now. You can plunge start with a regular base, just not as safely, conveniently or in some cases accurately as with a plunge base. If you don't know why you would need a plunge router you probably don't need one. I went with Porter-Cable because it is American made and just about all metal. The plastic clam shell cases that the Japanese manufacturers use may have their place in some tools, but IMHO they aren't the best choice for a router. I find in tools, it generally pays for me to go with the best quality I can afford. Whatever brand you choose, IMHO you should consider getting a router that has both 1/4" and 1/2" collets. Doing so will eliminate the cheapest routers. But you will have more choice in bits. Some bits are only available in 1/2" shanks. Sometimes you can get a better result with a bit with a 1/2" shank. And bits with 1/2" shanks are generally only about $1 more than the same bit with a 1/4" shank. Like HDBRbuilder says, best way to cut any opening is with a template and piloted bit, especially if you need to make identical openings in several panels. All the commercial circle cutting attachments I have seen are either overkill or overpriced. All you need is a 1/4" piece of acrylic or other material as wide as your router base and about as long as the radius of the hole and width of the router base. Remove the face plate from the router base. Attach the router base to one end of the acrylic. Make a hole at the other end for a center pin of some sort, e.g. nail, screw, etc. Or attach a trammel point like you did... I have cut out circles in the past with a jigsaw. If you have a steady hand, you can get fairly good results. But the circle will not be perfect, and you may have tearout on one side. If it matters what the result looks like, a router and template, or even some kind of circle cutting attachment, will give a much better result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 The reason I don't use a plunge router is because I NEVER...start routing along an opening on one of its edges...lesson learned there...I start INSIDE the opening (through a pre-drilled hole that I can put my router bit through with its bottom pilot)and work toward the outside edge along a point that is running WITH THE GRAIN of the veneers on the edge and work around to that same point...using a bottom pilot bit and a router template that has little sidewalls to secure the panel that I am routing TIGHTLY!!! Therefore...I NEVER have any chip-out on plywood...and there is nothing BUT a nice smooth edge...no chatter gives you a smooth edge when cutting out openings in plywood...or ANY veneered wood...BUT...of course, you need a nice SHARP router bit, too. I prefer 1/2" shank bits because they don't flex like 1/4" bits and make for a nicer finished edge. By the way...FYI...I was the king of the overhead pin router when I worked at Klipsch...NOBODY got nicer edges on panel openings than I did...not bragging...just stating fact!! And...I also had quite a few bits' edges explode to shrapnel when I routed...I went fast and they just couldn't handle the heat...especially when routing Baltic birch!! But, when you are trying to get a million dollars worth of speakers out the door in a month...there is an awful lot of routing to be done...so...you have to go fast!! One thing to always remember...a router can mess your day up bigtime...it demands you respect it!! It and a tablesaw are probably the most dangerous things in a woodworking shop...and those big stationary disc sanders aren't toys either!! But...I still have all my fingers, knuckles, etc...knock on wood!! FYI...all the speaker openings at Klipsch were routed using 3/8" diameter straight bits...on an overhead industrial pin router..with the guide pin being 3/8" diameter, too. When I started working there, all the router templates had steel base cut-outs...but we began to changeover to 3/8" tempered masonite for them later on...it was MUCH LIGHTER than those steel based templates...especially for the Cornwall fronts...and it produced MUCH LESS wear on the pin guides for the overhead router...and those little babies are EXPENSIVE, too! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 07-08-2002 at 06:22 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted July 8, 2002 Author Share Posted July 8, 2002 quote: If you don't know why you would need a plunge router you probably don't need one. Good point Malcolm!! for years I've been thinking I've been *missing* out using the plunge-free type. I think its down to the Porter-Cable or the Milwaukee. What I like about the Milwaukee unit is that it has a *grip* around the body of the motor. It allows for a real firm grasp of the tool. HDBR- Very interested in learning new procedure. Based on your brief desciption I get the idea but please elaborate. I'll be cutting 8" diameter holes. I have straight thru carbide bits 1/2" shanks but none with bottom pilots. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 A plunge router wouldn't work with a bottom-pilot bit, anyway. You could make a template that is oversized to account for the round router base (i.e. the template radius would be the radius of the hole you're cutting, plus the distance from the edge of the bit to the edge of the base), clamp the template to the top of the workpiece, and rout the hole with the router base riding along the template. Clear description, huh? I should be a teknickel riter, or something. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted July 9, 2002 Author Share Posted July 9, 2002 fini-the type you describe it the type I saw when I worked at AR as a kid. The templates were 1" thick, black anodized aluminum plates with large circular cut-outs in them. The baffle board was laid flat, the template placed over it, clamped in place and then routed out. Dowels were used to align prior to clamping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 The router forms I am talking about are designed to be UNDER the piece being routed. They have openings in them EXACTLY the same size as the openings you intend to rout in the piece. The form/template is larger than the piece(panel) to be routed...and has side walls around its perimeter to allow the piece(panel) to be routed to drop into it from the top. Although designed for an overhead pin router, they will work fine with a bottom pilot bit hand router if you just drill a hole in the center of the intended opening in the piece(panel) to be routed and insert the bit(not running) through it, then turn on the router and rout it out! As for making these forms, they are pretty simple...but the key is to get nice smooth edges. My suggestion is to get some 3/8" thick tempered masonite, take it to a machinist, have him mill out the openings on a mill using a 3/8" end mill...that will give you nice smooth edges for the template...then you just drill holes around the edge, countersunk from the bottom to accept bugle-head hardened drywall screws, and attach the plywood sides to the top edges of the template to hold your piece(panel) snugly. If there is any play in the piece when it is inserted into this form, it needs to be tightened-up so that no chatter occurs. This can be done by applying masking tape strips to the inside edges of the sidewalls, applying them one on each side of where the play is (to keep the piece centered)until the piece fits tightly so that no chatter occurs. After the routing is done, you just flip over the template and slap its long edge against a hard surface and the routed piece pops out...pretty simple. No alignment dowels needed or anything like that. Alternative method of making router templatefor ROUND holes: Get some 1/2" baltic birch. Draw (scribe)out your opening on the base material...then cut out the openings WITHIN the lines with a jigsaw or whatever. Then use an oscilating drum sander to sand the holes out to the intended lines...being careful to keep the edges smooth and consistent. attach the sides as mentioned above...then route out your panels. ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 I started to write a reply and then I read Malcoms. I agree with everything he said. I just use 1/4" scrap plywood instead of acrylic material. That's because I always have some around. I almost never cut the same size circle or hole, so it would be a waste of time to make templates. Take the plunge, it's always nice to have the right tool for the job. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted July 12, 2002 Author Share Posted July 12, 2002 I bought the Milwaukee router. Came with a metal latched plastic case, two collets and two (forged no less!) collet wrenches. Thanks to all that took the time to reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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