Randy Bey Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 to sort out what's wrong with my system. Or maybe it's my head. This is a symbiotic thing, music. Music just doesn't seem engaging anymore on the big rig. Maybe it's the electricity, phase, polarity, whatever. Maybe it's the digital source. Maybe it's the undamped K400s. Maybe it's my wires, IC, speaker cables. Maybe it's the heat. Where does an audiophile on a (very tight, read no) budget start? Oh, here's a link to pics http://www.users.qwest.net/~lucky9/photo.htm This message has been edited by Randy Bey on 07-10-2002 at 07:49 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I made a joke last week while discussing the power cord deal that barometric pressure is more responsible for day to day changes in the sound of our systems than any cable. Well, I wasn't really joking. If I had your system I would probably replace the Creek passive with a preamp. I've been checking out the Consonance stuff. Since you are on a budget why don't you consider building af> preamp f> ------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I'm still pissed you didnt even try to bid on that jeff Korneff 76 preamp on ebay! What gives? That thing went for a reasonable price. I thought you were going for it the whole time! You need a GOOD active gain stage to replace that Creek. Dynamics and drive will improve and the system will sound almost jumpstarted. Remember, this is coming from the person that talked you into getting that Creek! I have one. I still like it. But a GOOD (the word GOOD is important) active preamp does something for SET. I prefer it 85% of the time. What are your IC? The Rega likes a high quality IC. So do the Laurels. Ditto with speaker wire although dont tell anyone in this forum...ssssshhhh. (just saw your page and realized you now have the Theta Miles... oh well... ) Also, get out your contact cleaner and go through all the connections. In addition, DRINK FINE RED WINE before listening. This always works. kh PS- LAST but certainly not least, some of your tubes may be getting old and losing the highs. Also, when your rectifier tubes start getting tired, the system starts to sound more blah. But take a look at your tubes and play around here to make sure it's not that. IT can really sneak up on you. Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-10-2002 at 10:06 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Borrow a turntable. If you've seen any of my posts, you know I am not inherently anti-digital, but you also would know that I have concerns about how CD's are made and reproduced. Like you, I have serious financial limitations, and have never even heard a high dollar CD player, so I don't know if that helps. Hopefully, I will build my Card Deluxe based CD player soon and will perhaps find out. In the meantime, I remain convinced that a steady diet of CD's is like eating only rice. You feel like you are eating, but you aren't satisfied and will eventually starve to death. In short, if a turntable doesn't solve your problem you are in deep doodoo. My system is comparable to yours only in that I have K'horns. I am envious...but not a lot. I spent a delicious evening transported to realms of rapture. If my old SS Citation 12, AVA preamp, DynaQuad, DBX117, SME3009II with 200.00 Grado and Rotel TT can do that, I am either deaf or there is something inherently GOOD about analog. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! This message has been edited by Mallett on 07-10-2002 at 10:16 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Dave, he has a turntable but it's a rather dubious B&O model, more famous for the style over substance approach to all things audio. Of course, he needs to get a better one but I dont think that is the problem with Randy's system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Randy - Sounds like a mid-audiophile crisis. Try painting your equipment bright red and getting a gold medallion for your neck! (LOL). Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Well, I guess he's beyond hope. That's a really beautiful system to us on a budget. Even the TT should be no worse than my P-4300. I am certainly enjoying the "new" SME, but I really couldn't say I'd quit listening if I had to go back. Be interesting to see what the prognosis is and how the treatment works out... Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! This message has been edited by Mallett on 07-10-2002 at 11:26 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Randy, My first thought on locating the problem is to work backwards to when you first noticed the "lack of engagement" of your system. The question I ask most when troubleshooting a computer system is, "What was the most recent change to the system?" The second question for your system, "When did you first notice the loss of engagement?" IF nothing has changed component wise, Mobiles suggestion of "tired tubes" sounds on the mark. Do you have spares to roll in starting with the output tubes? Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Hell, Randy is the one who is tired... The system sounds fine. Stop playing the Diana Krall over and over again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Randy, In that first shot of your Laurels your rectifier needs to be seated in the socket! If that doesn't help I'd go for an active preamp. While I love my passive preamp, there is just no substitute for a good active preamp to add some "life" to your system. Nice gear BTW. ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps *coming soon* Supratek Syrah preamp McIntosh MCD 7007 CDP Sony S9000ES SACD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connect Speaker Cable Silver Audio Hyacinth interconnects (preamp->amp) DIYCable Superlatives (CDP/SACD/->preamp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (Tuner->preamp) f> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I second the "get a good preamp" reccomendation. Never heard a passive that worked for me . . . A better analog rig would help too. And you can do it for not a lot of money, BELIEVE me. And I don't mean buying that Music Hall crap, either. My humble rig cost MUCH less than most of that new crap and sounds like magic. (see pic) But this looks like a pretty killer hi-fi to me. Are you sure you're not imposing a general malaise onto your system? I've been there . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Woooooo. Sexy Thorens. I had my eye on a RekOKut on Ebay, but got the Rotel first. I really liked the looks of the old R, but didn't really know what rumble might be like on it or whether belts would be available. I sure like old retro styling, though. Love my Empire, but could never make hide nor hair out of the adjustments. The magnetic lift often grabs too soon (YIKES!). Use it for 78's...talk about overkill. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Jesus! Is that a KR tube I see in your amp???? What in the name of Sweet St. Nick are you doing with that? Those KR tubes are the most soulless tubes I have heard! That combined with the rather threadbare but open sound of the Creek passive READ STERILE times 10! I am surprised you havent run your head through the rear wall! You have gone off the deep end! kh ps - Is that a TV I see you are trying to hide???? No wonder! what is you address!? Watching "Full House" and listening with KR tubes to Stereophile Test CD has done damage! This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-10-2002 at 02:27 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 randy, here is a new rule to add to the list of "what you have learned" : * transparancy is highly over-rated * you can expand that concept to include : * flat response is highly over-rated * etc., etc. LOL! there is no doubt in my mind that the creek is utterly transparent, adding nothing to the music BUT I too decided to go active and while many may disagree with my choice (the re-furbished Marantz 7T, I couldn't afford a 7C, darn!) I have never looked back at passive once I went to active. But remember I am a heretic of the first order, my tone controls actually get used! In fact my favorite sounding unit still is my McIntosh integrated amp, with tone controls and, hold on to your hats audiopurists, a loudness control! boy does music get to jumpin' from that amp! So get out there and get yourself an active, with tone controls! or better yet a graphic equalizer! or forgive the heresy, a box from DBX to restore some umphhh to mediocre recordings...god I have gone off the deep end... BTW the glass of good red wine trick also works for me! warm regards form sunny el salvador, tony This message has been edited by sunnysal on 07-10-2002 at 02:36 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I have two solutions that won't cost very much and will really help the sound of your hi-fi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Solution 1...at first glance I thought Sonny Rollins was picking his pants outta his *ss! This message has been edited by edster00 on 07-10-2002 at 03:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 hey randy try this out! DBX 3BX-DS 3 Band Dynamic Range Controller NR http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1365312788 buy it for less than $150 and have a ball! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Have you ever used a 3 channel DBX? I've been using a DBX117 since the 70's and wouldn't spin 98 of a 100 LP's without it. After that many years, I can set it optimally with one turn. There is quite a bit of art to getting a setting that improves dynamics and reduces noise without audible side effects. I've always wondered if the multi-band units were any better. The 117 has always worked so well for me that I never looked into it. Seems theoretically sound...but also that much more complex to set properly. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 Kelly, I asked my wife about spending $550 on a preamp and she bit my head off. Probably something to do with my being paid 1/2 salary as of late.... Yeah, those are KR 302B 'blue' tubes. Had them always, they actually run cool to the touch. Those pictures, while somewhat new, did show me my rectifier was a bit loose. I took all the tubes out, and reinserted them a while back. My ICs are nothing special, and neither is my speaker cable. Problem with the speaker cable (it's braided cat5 now) is that I need 12' of it, and that puts even the 89259 stuff over $200 a pair. Have been thinking about wire lately, but good wire is seldom cheap. If I could get a decent old Thorens, I would jump at the chance. Most people say they need work, and short of a nice oil rub down I couldn't do much to improve a TT mechanics. And no, I have no Diana Krall, and yes, I do have Way Out West. Not a big Coltrane fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Things you could change for the better: 1. Good active preamp - Email me 2. Good IC and speaker cable - I tried the CAT5 and thought it ok...but the DIYCable wire blew it out of the water, literally. Their kits are a good deal. There are other option but I found this made a big deal with SET. Other wire is good but $$. 3. Ditch the KR tubes or try some others - In my opinono, the KR family of tubes are really unappealing without much character. Very clean sounding but the midrange is amazingly sterile to me. They dont even sound like a 300B tube! Have you tried anything else? They have nop midrange drive and harmonic richness. They sound like solid state! Make sure none of your tubes are going bad. 4. Upgrade that TT too. If you are going to go Thorens, make sure it's in good shape. There are other options that are less of a gamble. 5. Clean your contacts once every few months. I find this will really wake up a system sometimes - It can be eye opening! Do your ICs, speaker cables, and tube sockets/pins if you feel up to it. Too bad you couldnt grab that preamp. IT was a neat unit. I'll keep my eye out for you (The Basie might be an option). SET amps with expanders, tone controls, bass boost, loudness buttons etc is Heresy! No pun intended...heh. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-10-2002 at 05:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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