jcmusic Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I am using two subs in my 2 channel system and was wondering what is the better way to control the subs? Should I use the subs xover? Or run the sub full range and use a seperate EQ just for the subs? I also have a seperate EQ for the mains... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 better way... personally, I just cut them off fairly low so they are just doing duty below 50hz. everything seems very well balanced and natural in my system. no bloating at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 miniDSP? In the past I've messed with the Behringer stuff which also work, but suffer in the ergonomics department. These days I go from source directly to the amps, and rely on bass traps and strategic placement of the speakers, with use of rta measurement gear to get the crossover freq and phase as seamless as possible (basically Schu's method augmented with REW). Seriously, the results are as good or better to my ears than the heavy technological approach. Probably cheaper, too, but it takes some work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I also use two subs. One approach I like is xo the speakers at 80 and also xo the sub at 80 Hz with a 48 db LR slope on the Berhinger I Nuke DSP. This really cleans up the low end . It is not commonly recommended to use two xo, but there is nothing worng with doing it. This works well with front firing subwoofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 "I also use two subs. One approach I like is xo the speakers at 80 and also xo the sub at 80 Hz with a 48 db LR slope on the Berhinger I Nuke DSP. This really cleans up the low end . It is not commonly recommended to use two xo, but there is nothing wrong with doing it. This works well with front firing subwoofers." Geez, I am trying my best to learn about this stuff but is there an English version of this topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Geez, I am trying my best to learn about this stuff but is there an English version of this topic? Just jump in and specify exactly what you'd like clarification on. There's lots of knowledgeable folks here that are more than happy to share info. That's why I love this place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 "I also use two subs. One approach I like is xo the speakers at 80 and also xo the sub at 80 Hz with a 48 db LR slope on the Berhinger I Nuke DSP. This really cleans up the low end . It is not commonly recommended to use two xo, but there is nothing wrong with doing it. This works well with front firing subwoofers." Geez, I am trying my best to learn about this stuff but is there an English version of this topic? xo = crossover, in this case referring to where the sub's and main's output transition; there is overlap in the frequencies covered between the subs and mains, so... 80hz w/a 48db LR slope = frequencies at which high and low pass filters are set, and the slope they impart; steeper slopes result in less overlap from subs to woofs/mid bass drivers in the mains, allowing each to perform in their designated bands and not corrupt each other's output. Making sense yet? Behringer I Nuke = one of the available processors that can perform bass management; not sure about the I Nuke specifically, but some of these devices can accept correction files generated from REW Getting bass right is probably the most significant and common system bottleneck. The room's influence dominates at low frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well right now I am running the mains from 90hz up using a HPF and the subs are running from 120hz down. Doesn't sound bad but, I think I can get it better that's why the second EQ. My opions are to run both EQ's in stereo which will give me six filters to work with, one for the mains the other for the subs. Or I can run both EQ's in mono and this gives me twelve filter from each EQ to work with. I may have to try it both ways to hear which is better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I like my Paradigm X30. They don't make them any more, but if you can pick one up, you will love the ease of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 I like my Paradigm X30. They don't make them any more, but if you can pick one up, you will love the ease of it. Thanks for the info but, please let's stick to the topic...I already have the gear I am gonna use... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 better way... personally, I just cut them off fairly low so they are just doing duty below 50hz. everything seems very well balanced and natural in my system. no bloating at all. Have you measured your room to see what it is doing set up like this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I use my ears... next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I like my Paradigm X30. They don't make them any more, but if you can pick one up, you will love the ease of it. Thanks for the info but, please let's stick to the topic...I already have the gear I am gonna use... Ouch. Slapped me pretty hard . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well right now I am running the mains from 90hz up using a HPF and the subs are running from 120hz down Any reason there's that 30Hz overlap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well right now I am running the mains from 90hz up using a HPF and the subs are running from 120hz down. Doesn't sound bad but, I think I can get it better that's why the second EQ. Unless your subs are reasonably co-located with your mains, that's pretty high to cross them (localization). Also, the overlap may be coloring your results in the lower mids and mid bass; try reducing your sub's low pass to 90 or slightly lower and give a listen. My opions are to run both EQ's in stereo which will give me six filters to work with, one for the mains the other for the subs. Or I can run both EQ's in mono and this gives me twelve filter from each EQ to work with. I may have to try it both ways to hear which is better... You'll primarily need to eq at frequencies where the room starts to take over, ~250-300 hz on down, but probably not much if any above that (I assume your speakers are reasonably well sorted). What equalizers/crossovers are you working with? If your room only presents a few trouble frequencies you won't need to use both. Got REW or an omnimic rig to get a better look at what's happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 This is where it seems to sound the best for now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 I like my Paradigm X30. They don't make them any more, but if you can pick one up, you will love the ease of it. Thanks for the info but, please let's stick to the topic...I already have the gear I am gonna use... Ouch. Slapped me pretty hard . . . Sorry didn't mean to be so harsh, I am just not interested in what others are using for themselves. I have to use what I have I am not looking for advice on gear, I have that already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well right now I am running the mains from 90hz up using a HPF and the subs are running from 120hz down. Doesn't sound bad but, I think I can get it better that's why the second EQ. Unless your subs are reasonably co-located with your mains, that's pretty high to cross them (localization). Also, the overlap may be coloring your results in the lower mids and mid bass; try reducing your sub's low pass to 90 or slightly lower and give a listen. Here is wher the problem starts I think maybe I am going about this all wrong, I am using REW and adjusting things from the curves I am seeing. I thought that was the correct way to do this? My opions are to run both EQ's in stereo which will give me six filters to work with, one for the mains the other for the subs. Or I can run both EQ's in mono and this gives me twelve filter from each EQ to work with. I may have to try it both ways to hear which is better... You'll primarily need to eq at frequencies where the room starts to take over, ~250-300 hz on down, but probably not much if any above that (I assume your speakers are reasonably well sorted). What equalizers/crossovers are you working with? If your room only presents a few trouble frequencies you won't need to use both. Got REW or an omnimic rig to get a better look at what's happening? The Speakers are in the corners as they should be, the EQ's are Yamaha YDP 2006 pro audio stuff very good quality. The only xovers are subs and the mains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Since you've gotten your second sub, have you tried turning your crossover on your sub amps down to 50 and dropped the output on your K-horns down to 50? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 For what its worth I did the following when I had a sub. I set it to as high as possible on its crossover which I believe was in the 100 range. I then use the active crossover to send it only signal below 38 because that's where it seemed the Jub cabs rolled off. The sub wasn't doing much but once I had the levels right it seemed to work quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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