These are crossovers from a Klipsch Clone I just purchased

[CECAA850]

I believe they were HIP's.

[mungkiman]

they look just like heresy knockoffs... no cornwall involvement what so ever.

wasn't there a bottom Ported heresy at one point?

My "Cornwall inspired" comment had only to do with porting, but I always appreciate further edification... Thanks

[Redpackman]

OK, more information. In doing some research I found this listing which was very helpful:

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/379428337328520863/

Apparently, what I have is a Beta Sound model 045. It fits the description in the article perfectly. As you can see, however, from the pictures I sent, the crossover is completely disconnected and it's not labelled. I have no clue how to hook it up to the components when and if I get some. Anyone have a schematic for the crossover for the Beta Sound model 045? :-)

I went through the x-over tonight with a VOM meter and a cap checker and all the components check out. One of the caps was a little high and should be replaced, but all the others were in pretty good shape, well within 10% tolerances. Continuity is there from point to point too. So, this thing should work, if I knew how to hook it up.

Listing at $730 a pair in '77, this sounds like it had some production values in it that merit a listen if I can get her going again. No, it's no Cornwall, but it probably sounds pretty nice. We'll see.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Redpackman

[Redpackman]

Update, with some help elsewhere on this site about proper hook up, I got the speakers going. They sound great to my ears. Lots of bass, strong mid and pretty crisp highs. The tweets are some Klipsch K-77M's (the square variety). I got some PRV D250ph-S1 [http://www.prvaudio.com/d250ph-s.html] for the mids as they fit the specs pretty well. It has the original 12" woofer. Not sure it's origin.

To my ears they sound really good.

[Marvel]

I've looked at the PRV drivers. They are really inexpensive, but might work for a project I have.

Bruce

Edited June 15, 2014 by Marvel

[Rivervalleymgb]

i will grab my pair this afternoon and get some photos of them. On both my sets of Beta Sound speakers, the woofer has vented dustcaps. ala Altec. The 12" in the 045 will need dustcaps made for them. I got some 15" dustcaps for the woofers in the M-100's from my speaker repair place in Tulsa, Speakerworks. Dave said he didn't have a source for 12" dustcaps. So I will make my own.

[Rivervalleymgb]

Pics of my Beta Sound 045's

[Rivervalleymgb]

They are approximately the height of a Heresy, but you can see they are wider due to the tuning slots. the tuning slots are front and back. It will be a while before I can test them and post charts. I had foot surgery yesterday, so carrying anything is out for the next six weeks. They really sound very, very good. They havre to be placed away from the wall at least a foot due to the slots on the back panel.

[Redpackman]

Well, that's confusing. Your speakers seem to have the same tweeter and mid arrangement as my speakers. But the woofer arrangement and cabinet construction are totally different but both, I presume have a 12" woofer.

I don't know what to make of it. Your woofers are totally recessed while mine are, as you can see from my picture below, on the same plane as the tweet and mid. What are the dimensions of your cabinet?

According to the information another kind forum member posted http://www.pinterest.com/pin/379428337328520863/

The dimensions of the Beta 045 are roughly 17" x 14" x 25" which is what my speakers are.

The dimensions of the Beta 050 are roughly 17" x 17 " x 41"

The dimensions of the Beta 100 are roughly 25" x 21" x 41"

It was that information that convinced me that what I had was a Beta Sound model 045, but after looking at your pictures, I'm not sure anymore. I suppose Beta could have had two or more different configurations of their model 045. OR the information noted above in the pintrerest piece is simply wrong data. That wouldn't be the first time that a reference magazine got the info wrong.

What do you suggest is the solution?

Edited June 19, 2014 by Redpackman

[Rivervalleymgb]

I think it is different production runs. I remember Bob Moers talking very bitterly about Beta Sound ripping off Klipsch designs. If I remember right, they were going to pursue legal action. This may have necessitated a design change. I know that the M-100 was the first "cornscala" design. Matter of fact, there is an eBay auction right know for Beta Sound horn lens being sold as a match for the K-600 horn. The seller said he had the 15" woofer, but no cabinets. My M-100's have a horn designed and patented by Phillip Clements, Beta Sound's designer. It is not like a K-600 horn, but more like a K-400. It is a proprietary design.

The literature you cited is the same I sent you. It is from 1976. I first heard of them in 1977 or 78 when I was playing poker with a bunch of Klipsch employees and Bob was there and the discussion turned to Beta Sound. I think they were out of business by 1980. So there could have been some quick design changes to avoid the wrath of Klipsch lawyers. I know my 045 will outperform a Heresy in the LF range by a long way. They are supposed to get down to 35 Hz. I haven't tested them due to other projects. The last time they were playing they were mounted on 12" stands with a 1o degree tilt. They filled the room with excellent sound.

When I get travel, I have to go to Speakerworks in Tulsa, so I will ask Dave Miller about the history. He used to sell them where he worked bakc in the 70's. The literature you and I have copies of is the only literature I have ever come across. That is why I spent time trying to get an answer out of Phil Clements, but he refused to talk about Beta Sound.

[Rivervalleymgb]

I forgot to mention that the pinterest post you referenced is mine.

[Redpackman]

Thank you for that post. It has been very valuable to me.

I can understand your statement that the Beta speakers outperform the Heresy. These things can really sing!

[Marvel]

The tuning slots on the sides look very much like the tuning that Frazier did on some of their cabinets.

Bruce

[ClaudeJ1]

That is a Klipsch Heresy Industrial Pro copy. The port was designed for a different woofer known as a K-42. Not saying the speaker is bad. It could be upgraded to match the high Klipsch standards.

[Rivervalleymgb]

Beta Sound copied Klipsch on at least two of their models. I have the M-100 also, which are the first "Cornscala". I need to get them uncovered and get some pics of them. My M-100 were made in '77, IIRC. I have Fraziers, also, and yes they are similar. These were a late run of the M-045 from what I can find out. I bought them in Tyler, Texas where one of the owners of Beta Sound lived. It seems that they made the change from the first production models to the one I have due to pressure from Klipsch. There is a pair of midrange horn lenses on eBay right now from Beta Sound. I haven't pulled my mids on the M-100's, but I may do so when I can get some HPM-100's moved and a few consoles. My M-100's are so rough on the outside, I hate to post pics of them.

Beta Sound used foam instead of grill cloth on the front. the foam has long ago rotted off the two pairs I have. I wish Phil Clements would answer some of these questions about Beta Sound, but he isn't talking!

[Redpackman]

I can imagine, IF Beta Sound was sued or threatened with legal action it would be a pretty painful experience and memory for anyone who had a lot of emotional and/or financial investment in Beta, particularly if it brought about Beta's demise.

On the one hand, it does appear that Beta's designs were quite similar to Klipsch's. And yet, from what I've been told, Klipsch didn't design the speakers but rather created the cabinets and crossovers and then turned to others for speakers to fill their cabinets (E.V., Atlas? et al). So what made Klipsch a Klipsch weren't "Klipsch drivers" but their cabinetry and electronics coupled with other suppliers' quality components. So I can see the argument that Beta might have had that their cabinet was not designed like K's (look at the porting in the Beta 045 that the Heresy didn't have for instance). Look at the foam covering the front. Why can't they do their thing too, without being harassed out of business by Klipsch?

Then there's the crossover.

I've sent photos of the crossover in my 045 and nobody says it's anything like a Klipsch. In fact that's been one of the greatest mysteries of all, whether this cross over is indeed a Beta or some third party's creation. Some have said it looks like some quality components while others have said it looked like some audio-electronic experiment gone awry.

Now that I've got it wired up, thanks to some help from another Forum member, it sounds great.

Could you post a picture of your Beta 045 crossover? I'd love to see if it looks anything like mine.

[Rivervalleymgb]

[Redpackman]

Thanks for the postings. I find it interesting too, from your pictures to see all the fluff packed around the mid's. I assume that's done for a definite purpose. Was that the way Beta engineered it, or did you choose to do it that way to tame down the mid a bit?

Your woofer and mine look like they're from the same "family" however. Any idea who made them for Beta?

Thanks again for the work in posting this. The crossovers are WAY different than what I have, obviously.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Redpackman

[Rivervalleymgb]

This was done by the previous owner, along with the new capacitors. I use the adhesive, stretchy type of rubberized strips for weatherproofing vehicles, then spray that with rubberized vehicle undercoating to damp horns. The way this cabinet is built, there is little resonance to worry about. The horn is actually twice as thick as a comparative Klipsch horn. I have sold all my Heresy except for a KP-201. I kept this pair of Beta Sound. In my listening area, they sound better on a stand with a tilt back the same as the Heresy rise, but about 10" off the floor. The tuning slots on the rear mean that you have to play around with position much more carefully.

[moray james]

From what I know, these were produced by Beta Sound Incorporated. Obviously inspired by Klipsch products - Heresy - Cornwall etc. I'll try to attach some pictures too. The woofers are 12". The mid and tweet are meant to be the same as the K-55 and K-77. As you can see, I have the mid horns but not the driver (the horns are stamped "BETA" on them and appear to be metal), I have no horns or drivers for the tweet.

The crossover is as pictured too and doesn't work. I'm going to check out the caps. With the resistors it looks like someone's "Rube Goldberg" project, but I'm told the other components there look to be pretty good quality.

Any help is appreciated.

I guess it is just me but I feel compelled to tell you that what ever else that you do with these loudspeakers that you either remove and replace the fiberglass insulation or install material to filter glass shards from leaving the speaker via the reflex vent. I would strongly recommend removing the fiberglass as the safest thing that you can do. You may as well be wearing a fiberglass face mask with that set of speakers pumping glass shards into the room. Not safe not legal either that's why you don't see fiberglass being used in speakers these days . Ask any HVAC installer about safe use of fiberglass insulation in modern home construction. Be safe best regards Moray James.