Marvel Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 If you need a first hand comparison, contact Dhar on this forum. He has owned both horns and IIRC recently sold the Sousa horns and kept the Oris. In that thread, they were Azura Horns, not Sousa's, unless I misread it.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) I understand the issue of calling them Sousa horns. The design was the original design for the Azura horn. Unless I miss something, Gary did not design those horns. He used an original Azura prototype and used it as a mold to make what he has now. The reason I know that is that when I was researching my purchase, I contacted the builder of the Azurahorn and he gave me the entire skinny on the Sousa horns. As I said, If anyone is going to buy those, contact me and I will provide the information I have. I don't want to post it here since some of the information was provided to me by a third party and I don't want to post hearsay I cannot prove. I don't want to trash anyone's intent. I just want fellow Klipsch forum members to know what they are getting into. Edited August 5, 2014 by Rudy81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Here is more information with pictures on the subject. Read the last sentence in the article and you will get an idea of what I am talking about. http://www.itishifi.com/2013/01/sousahorn-160hz-horn-for-full-range.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 That is all true but at the end of the day it is Le Cleach profile which anyone can build and sell. They just got cross ways which is too bad. They are both good guys. I'd buy from either one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 That is all true but at the end of the day it is Le Cleach profile which anyone can build and sell. They just got cross ways which is too bad. They are both good guys. I'd buy from either one of them. Yes, they certainly seem to both be very nice gentlemen. Yes, anyone can build what they want and sell it. I have no problem with any of that. I was simply trying to inform folks of an issue with those horns that may not be apparent. I know because I purchased a pair but retracted my offer when I found the full details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 That is all true but at the end of the day it is Le Cleach profile which anyone can build and sell. They just got cross ways which is too bad. They are both good guys. I'd buy from either one of them. Yes, they certainly seem to both be very nice gentlemen. Yes, anyone can build what they want and sell it. I have no problem with any of that. I was simply trying to inform folks of an issue with those horns that may not be apparent. I know because I purchased a pair but retracted my offer when I found the full details. Sure. The last time I talked to Gary he was also working on some other horns as well. The problem is that Azurahorn.com can't ship the big 150hz horns. I asked a while back. Who does big horns like that in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 As far as I know, nobody produces a horn like that in the US. Oris is in Europe, along with the autotech horns. Azurahorn is in Australia I think. Oris does ship to the US, that is how I got mine. I hated paying the big bucks for shipping, but Bert does a fantastic job of crating the horns and they arrived in perfect condition. I pursued the Azurahorn for a while because I wanted the Le Cleach flare. But, the shipping from down under was just crazy expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Rudy, there is also a recent thread on Bert's Forum about Copying his Horns. Have you seen it? BTW - I have my Oris Orphean Horns up and Running. Have you heard the Orphean System yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Rudy, there is also a recent thread on Bert's Forum about Copying his Horns. Have you seen it? BTW - I have my Oris Orphean Horns up and Running. Have you heard the Orphean System yet? Great to hear your Orpheans are up and running. How do they match the Khorn bins? Time delay? Drivers? Yes, I have been following the Oris copy issues. I know one group is copying them in Europe. I have seen their ads. Not much Bert can do really. I also read somewhere here that one of our members was considering making a copy for personal use. That's the problem with the Sousa horn. It is a copy of a PROTOTYPE that was flawed from the start. I think that is one of the reasons the Azurahorn builder does not endorse the product. Granted, you or I may not 'hear' the problems when listening. I don't know, I never got a hold of them. In my case, knowing how I chase the ever elusive audio perfection, I knew I would always wonder what I was missing by using a prototype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) I spent two days listening to Lowther field coils on these large horns. The sound is great. I've heard Lowthers a few times and on these big horns is the best I've heard them. Thanks Seti, Gary had them toed in at the show on Friday and most of Saturday... and the system had no center image to speak of. Very disappointing. Then one of Gary's amps blow out on Saturday and we wereplaying around with placement. The room was small but we were able to achieve a solid center with good depth with the horns pointing straight ahead. They are balance and somewhat mellow sounding, very different from the TAD sound, very smooth and nice. I dont think I physically have the space as my 450Hz horns are already overwhelming but I plan to give Gary a visit the next time I go to Baltimore. There are a couple of guys in Chicago using horn loaded full range drivers, Gary's is very compeititive with theirs and I like the LeCleac'h profile. They are very reasonably price. Not as good a deal as the AUTOTECHs but still very attractive price. Surprise Rudy is not commenting.... Just now decided to read the entire post guys. Sorry to take so long. I had been out of the country and had not done my usual catching up. These large horns are IMHO really nice with the Tang Band drivers. I wish I could compare them with the AER or Lowther drivers, but as of yet had not had the opportunity. To my ears, they sound very different than horns with compression drivers. Mellower and more relaxed. It is just a different sound. They are very dynamic and I think precise. I have played around extensively with the setup and discussed it at length with Bert Doppenberg of Oris fame. I originally toed mine in as Bert suggested and they did have a nice image. However, over time I found that the soundstage was not as large and 'impressive' as was the first set I ever auditioned here in Dallas. That set was aimed straight ahead. After playing around with them for many months, I found that I preferred them with just a very minor toe in.....pretty much straight ahead. That is my current setup. I get a precise center image, a very wide soundstage and great depth of sound. They really sound great to me. Since finishing my acoustic room treatments, the sound field has improved even more. So, I am still extremely happy with the horn and the sound they produce. One of these days I'll get a set of AER or Lowther drivers and see how they sound. I just have a tough time justifying the huge cost of a new set of those drivers. Edited August 6, 2014 by Rudy81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I also read somewhere here that one of our members was considering making a copy for personal use. I think Arash (in Iran) was building some tractrix horns using calculations. When he sent the figures to Bert, they were very close to the same. That's the problem with math... at tractrix formula shoudl produce the same shape if you input the same numbers. Same as the Le Cleac'h equation. Makes it hard to do a patent or copyright of any kind.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 One more note on the Autotech horns. I really tried to get a set of those as well, but had two problems. First, at the time nobody could just order me a set of those, I had to be part of some very large order that some of the horn groups put together. So, there was no telling when I would get a pair. Second, only other option was to order them from Europe and pay shipping....which made them competitive with the Oris horn. I know a couple of guys were looking at becoming US distributors for Autotech, but I never found out where that stood. At one time, there was a US distributor for Oris, but they closed down that end of the business and I don't know the background on that. So, keep an eye out for Oris or Autotech horns on eBay if you are interested. Also, Audiogon occasionally has a pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I also read somewhere here that one of our members was considering making a copy for personal use.I think Arash (in Iran) was building some tractrix horns using calculations. When he sent the figures to Bert, they were very close to the same. That's the problem with math... at tractrix formula shoudl produce the same shape if you input the same numbers. Same as the Le Cleac'h equation. Makes it hard to do a patent or copyright of any kind.Bruce I built three Tractrix round horns for my old 2" drivers. It was a lot of work and a pain in the neck. When I tested them, I found they had some irregularities in response that I could not fix or track down. I suspect it just comes down to the precision of manufacture. After that experience, I decided to just buy a set that had a good reputation and following in the audio community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 For those interested in the Oris copy, here is the listing....http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oris-150-One-pair-horn-speaker-/161363032521?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item2591fc79c9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 The us distributor was Welborne Labs for a short time, John Kalinowski was also heavy into Oris for a bit although never a distributor to my knowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 You are correct. I remember now contacting Wellborne Labs. At one point they had a set of Oris horns on Audiogon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 If you can wait the guys at http://www.diysoundgroup.com/ are the ones that do the bulk orders. I would jump in closer to ship time when an order is ready. This is likely what I will do. I want a pair of these http://www.diysoundgroup.com/horns/tractrix200.html . For what it is worth the Sousa sounds good despite prototype issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Funny. I knew John Kalinowski and his brother In high school in Wisconsin. He's done extensive horn building. I almost bought a pair of a Oris 150s when Ron W. Was selling them. I still buy small parts from Ron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Contact Les Hudson for that style of horn, he makes different sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Contact Les Hudson for that style of horn, he makes different sizes. Nice. Where do I know that name from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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