EKBI Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Well, now it all makes sense [emoji1] Yes, the wife Factor is a concern [emoji15] But she has absolutely no idea that i bought the system yet [emoji23] it's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission [emoji106] I'm expecting arrival for the system next week. So i'm doing my homework now getting it right from the start. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 LOL, have her go out to get something for herself and when she gets back, just make like it was always there and act surprised when she asks about it. Tell her you thought she was the one who bought it for the house as a surprise to you. See how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKBI Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 [emoji1] Lucky i'm not woking until december, so when it arrives i can put up the speakers in a day before she get home [emoji1] Martin Pedersen Denmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Is the anticipation growing? Congrats, that's a very nice system….good luck with the wife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKBI Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Can't wait!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Is the anticipation growing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 it's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission That usually works with hot air balloon landings. Wives, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Is the anticipation growing? That is NASTY, Nasty, Nasty.... Give me my eyesight back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKBI Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 [emoji23][emoji23] i'm not sure it's safe to sleep now Martin Pedersen Denmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Ahhhhhh... The WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor)...... We all know about these things..... I'd also recommend putting a heavy drapery (something thick and absorptive - like a thick comforter or blanket that's fuzzy) over that back wall just behind your couch. The idea is to absorb midrange and high frequencies that are within about a metre of your head. It would also be nice to have a corner bass trap, but that can wait if you are recovering financially from the purchase. Your stereo/multichannel imaging and timbre will improve--perhaps dramatically. Allready asked her, but that was a no go [emoji1] Regarding kables for the sub. I have seen a lot of videos on youtube and They say that if i want to use the amplifier in the sub i have to use both LINE inputs? (This is NOT true. Use the ONE RCA cable, and it WILL use the amp in the sub. I have the Klipsch RW-12d, I use the ONE RCA kable, and I assure you the 300 watt plate amp in the sub is active and working. I can adjust sub settings using the Onk controls, and I can further physically adjust the sub itself with the buttons on the sub control panel) Also, seeing how People's setup on the crossover freq is giving me a bit of Grey hair on the top. But i have seen on Klipsch's website that the sub must be set to 50 herz? There is also recommended setting for your receiver on how to set the rest of the speakers. Martin Pedersen Denmark +++ (Mustang Guy) That 50Hz adjustment idea on the sub is not correct. Here are some facts on your system (taken from Klipsch specifications): Your Sub is good down to 24Hz Your center and rear speakers are good down to about 58Hz Your mains (left/right speakers) are good down to 35Hz. Audyssey and your Onkyo will set your crossovers with a -3db @ crossover point 12db per octave slope high pass filter, and a -3db @ crossover point 24db per octave slope low pass filter. What this means is that frequencies above and below the set point for each speaker do indeed get through. It is not a clean cutoff of sound at a certain frequency, only a diminishing signal the further from the crossover point you get. The -3db at the crossover point means you are forcing the speaker/sub to be 3db less loud at that point and diminish from their at a slope (24db for sub and 12db for speaker, per octave). Dave's comments: Mustang Guy gives excellent suggestions, as always. I was trying to be more "mainstream" with my suggestions (for instance, XO's at 80). If you use the settings Mustang Guy suggests, you will get a very full bass sound (double bass) especially at lower volumes. Test your system both ways and let your ears tell you what is most pleasing to you. I find I get more clarity by NOT using double-bass, but I like to hear clarity in music, which means playing louder than typical TV watching. 1. Where I would start in your Onkyo is: Left and Right speakers - Full Band Center and surrounds - 55Hz (This setting will likely be 60, as settings options are 40-60-80-100-120) LFE setting on sub - 120Hz If Audyssey is setting up the system the first time, if you are using a sub, it will NOT set the L/R to Full Band, it will measure the sound and set them to the lowest XO point, probably around 60Hz. 2. On your subwoofer, disable the frequency by turning the LOWPASS knob as high as it will go (150Hz). For the first time, I would suggest you run the room correction with the sub ON. If you want to run the L/R at Full Band as Mustang Guy Suggests, the way to do that is to turn the sub OFF (or unplug it), THEN run Audyssey. After Audyssey has run, then plug your sub back in. Without a sub detected, Audyssey will automatically set your L/R to Full Band. The settings on your sub as set by Audyssey will probably look strange. Your sub might be 10 feet away, but Audyssey might set it at 25 feet. That is normal, as Audyssey is using time alignment, balancing the sub with the rest of the speakers. If your sub is set up properly, you really won't hear the sub directly, but your other speakers will have VERY full low end sound, and you will more feel the sub rather than hear it. 3. On your Onkyo TX-NR737 run Audyssey. Use multiple points for best results. Watch a movie and listen to some music. If this does not give you a full sounding bass, you can experiment by offloading more of it to your sub by changing the center and surrounds frequency to an incrementally higher number like 60, 65, 70, 75, or even 80Hz (I think is way too high by the way), etc, and re-running Audyssey. With a single sub, and many speakers, and due to room modes, having the bass at the speaker points gives definite advantages over bass from a single point (sub). Subs do produce bass with less effort, however. I just saw that comment directly above, by Mustang Guy about the 80 Hz cutoff point. I don't take that as a disagreement so much as a simple difference in preference. If you go by the recommendations of Audyssey, it will be MUCH closer to his XO points than mine. (Mustang Guy, did I put that correctly?) PS: Your receiver has a Dolby Atmos firmware update. If you haven't done so, you should update to it when you can. Martin, study your manual, it has very useful information on settings. The Onk 727 has a huge number of options, and it took me a long time to understand what it all meant, and I spent a lot of hours experimenting. Mustang Guy's suggestions will get you very close to ideal settings, and after that any changes will be personal preference (more bass, less bass, mid-range punch, etc). Edited November 19, 2014 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Regarding kables for the sub. I have seen a lot of videos on youtube and They say that if i want to use the amplifier in the sub i have to use both LINE inputs? (This is NOT true. Use the ONE RCA cable, and it WILL use the amp in the sub. I have the Klipsch RW-12d, I use the ONE RCA kable, and I assure you the 300 watt plate amp in the sub is active and working. I can adjust sub settings using the Onk controls, and I can further physically adjust the sub itself with the buttons on the sub control panel) We may not be talking about the same thing but I had to use both RCA inputs on my R-115SW with the wireless controller. Yeah it worked with just one but only opened up after I got a splitter and used both. By saying line inputs though I thought he was talking about speaker level inputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Regarding kables for the sub. I have seen a lot of videos on youtube and They say that if i want to use the amplifier in the sub i have to use both LINE inputs? (This is NOT true. Use the ONE RCA cable, and it WILL use the amp in the sub. I have the Klipsch RW-12d, I use the ONE RCA kable, and I assure you the 300 watt plate amp in the sub is active and working. I can adjust sub settings using the Onk controls, and I can further physically adjust the sub itself with the buttons on the sub control panel) We may not be talking about the same thing but I had to use both RCA inputs on my R-115SW with the wireless controller. Yeah it worked with just one but only opened up after I got a splitter and used both. By saying line inputs though I thought he was talking about speaker level inputs. I fully admit, I may be confused (wouldn't be the first time ) but there is only one output from the Onkyo 727 which runs to the sub. (Onk 727 is 7.2, but there is only one output for each of sub1 and sub2.) If there is a wireless controller, I don't know anything about that. I think the OP is questioning if the plate amp in the sub would be bypassed if only ONE input was used, based on Youtube videos he had seen. The answer to that is "no" the plate amp is not bypassed. The alternative to powering the sub is to run the L/R RCA outputs to the L/R RCA inputs of the sub, then the sub divides the signal and sends output via speaker wire to the L/R speakers. I would only do that if no sub out was available in a 2.0 stereo receiver. Edited November 20, 2014 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Using both RCA inputs can make subs set to auto on work better at low levels. That's the reason people use it. If you aren't having this problem, you don't need it. Dave is mostly right on track. As he is inferring, settings are subjective. Being objective, the reason I am recommending lower crossover points in this setup is because of a single sub. As has been discussed frequently here, room modes of bass frequencies is a big pain. The cure is adding more and more subs. Letting the speakers have a bigger share, is going to reduce room modes for the frequencies sent to the speakers. There will still be modes for frequencies that are only being sent to the sub. You could set your mains (left and right speakers) to 40Hz cutoff to protect them from over-excursion. It will make an overall difference in what you hear. The speakers are capable of 35Hz according to the specs, and setting a 40Hz high pass filter will put 40Hz 3db down, and 35Hz 6db down (it's at -3db out of the box with the natural rolloff). Edited November 20, 2014 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) (respectful snip!) Dave is mostly right on track. As he is inferring, settings are subjective. Being objective, the reason I am recommending lower crossover points in this setup is because of a single sub. As has been discussed frequently here, room modes of bass frequencies is a big pain. The cure is adding more and more subs. Letting the speakers have a bigger share, is going to reduce room modes for the frequencies sent to the speakers. There will still be modes for frequencies that are only being sent to the sub. Well, I think YOU are mostly on the right track! OK, I've been thinking about this, and you have convinced me that YOURS is the better recommendation. Remember, I have the CF-4's with dual 12" woofers, so in my setup the danger is too much (muddy) bass. But we aren't talking about me. The OP is using dual 6.5" woofers, and running them so the woofers are used to the fullest of their range is the better idea. Like you said. I think you just paid better attention to the OP than me. Edited November 20, 2014 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I agree that the double bass setting would likely be too much, but I kinda think that would depend on the room acoustics as well. As you implied, it's all subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) I agree that the double bass setting would likely be too much, but I kinda think that would depend on the room acoustics as well. As you implied, it's all subjective. The double bass was too much for my Klipsch L/R setup, but the CF-4 was not designed to be the fronts in a 5.1 system. OTOH I built some Fusion 10 Pure speakers which feature a 12" horn with a 10" woof, which were designed to be used with a sub, and the double bass mode sounds really good. And yes, this particular setup DID collapse the hutch in the middle! http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-10.html Edited November 20, 2014 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKBI Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Thanks for all your input! You Americans are more "down to earth" than the are her in most Danish forums! (I'm a New England Patriots fan [emoji458]) I Got some bad and god news today. the Danish supplier can not deliver my system i this month, but maybe in 14 days. And thats only a maybe. Also, they could not deliver my R-112SW in 2014, but I could get a R-115SW for only 300$ more. So i agreed on that as well. Martin Pedersen Denmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKBI Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Got my receiver today, it's bad ***! It really good Sound, even with my old JAMO 707's Martin Pedersen Denmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Awesome! That 115 gets great reviews here on the sub forum. I understand the NFL has been playing abroad for years and it is a big success. Perhaps one day the Europeans will call it football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKBI Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Mustang guy, how far from the corners, on the backwall do i place the surround speakers? Klipsch recommend Them to be between 6-15 ft appart. Martin Pedersen Denmark Edited November 23, 2014 by EKBI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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