HDBRbuilder Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 Methinks Clueless gave the same translation of BOSE into le Francais as I did in Italiano...LOL! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 08-03-2002 at 10:24 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 HDBR - Thanks for the explanation. I just used babelfish.altavista.com to translate "the wall"... and you know how good computers translate language! Erdric and all - There is a cool site www.hifilit.com which has some old advertisements and company literature type stuff from the late 40's and 50's. Stuff from Klipsch, McIntosh, Electrovoice etc. In there is where I read about the " golden rectangle " having an influence on the K-horn dimensions. There is also a section on the www.hifilit.com site which has old Mad magazine articles from the early 50's about Hi-Fi's. What is so great is how suitable it fits in today, especially some of the threads on this board. William - Böse in German means 'mean' or 'bad'. Hits pretty close to home for Bose, eh? Keep the great tid-bits of info about the personal touches PWK had on the Heritage line! Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 EDIT: had to subtract a smilie... and I was laughing at the posts by Clu and HDBR... haven't read the one immediately preceding mne yet... but will... ------------------ SoundWise / <A HREF="maimailto:Promediatech@klispch.com">ProMedia Tech Support</A> / 1-888-554-5665s> This message has been edited by trespasser_guy on 08-03-2002 at 10:34 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 HDBR - Thanks for the explanation. I just used babelfish.altavista.com to translate "the wall"... and you know how well computers translate language! Erdric and all - There is a cool site www.hifilit.com which has some old advertisements and company literature type stuff from the late 40's and 50's. Stuff from Klipsch, McIntosh, Electrovoice etc. In there is where I read about the " golden rectangle " having an influence on the K-horn dimensions. There is also a section on the www.hifilit.com site which has old Mad magazine articles from the early 50's about Hi-Fi's. What is so great is how suitable it fits in today, especially some of the threads on this board. William - While unrelated to the Italian connection: Böse in German means 'mean' or 'bad'. Hits pretty close to home for Bose, eh? Keep the great tid-bits of info about the personal touches PWK had on the Heritage line! Mace This message has been edited by mace on 08-03-2002 at 10:39 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 <double post> This message has been edited by mace on 08-04-2002 at 10:43 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted August 4, 2002 Author Share Posted August 4, 2002 There has been some mention of BOSE systems here. Interesting enough I went to a concert the other day, at a performing arts camp, and they had horn loaded BOSE speakers. I didn't know they existed. I'll probably get slammed for this but my friend had a Scott amplifier driving a pair of vintage 901's, which was 20 years ago, and I thought it sounded very musical. My Father-in-law has the new BOSE system with a low end Yammy receiver and boy does it hurt your ears. He loves it......I personally don't like BOSE systems but it's amazing how many people want their systems. They have a very respected name (non-audiophiles) and a great marketing staff. I've been doing some reading on old Vitavox, Jensen and JBL systems. There are some very interesting vintage gear out there. I need a bigger house and cash roll.....for now I can still drool over my computer monitor for free. ------------------ My Klipsch Page www.nyonline.com/klipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 The BOSE 901 is the speaker that put BOSE on the map...it is basically a ported enclosure that uses NINE IDENTICAL DRIVERS about 4" in diameter. One of these drivers fires forward, and the rest are on its rear, which is angled to reflect to each side to the rear...4 drivers on each side of these rear sides...it uses direct reflection to produce its bass. It uses an equalization unit to "smooth out" its response. It is necessary to have the cabinet on the included stands or at the same height as those stands in order for it to work properly. It is also recommended that the speakers be placed along a wall instead of into a corner...this is due to the included angles on its rear that require its reflection to occur along a single plane in order to achieve the desired results. Placing it in a corner messes this system up and it produces too many reflections in a corner to sound like it is intended to sound...BUT this required placement ALSO detracts from its possible performance because the corner placement would allow for better coverage of an area with its single front-firing driver...a trade-off, in other words!! At the time that the 901 came out, there were many speakers around that used a combination of reflection and direct firing to achieve their goals...but the 901 did it using one single type of driver to produce it all. Because of this, it suffers in other areas...no tweeter makes it have no crispness to its highs, and no woofer causes it to lack in its bass clarity due to the bass being produced by reflection ONLY!! For what it is, it works well...but it isn't anywhere near the best in any category. Hell, you can take a Heresy, place it firing backwards into a corner, and throw a cheap 6x9" car speaker atop it firing forward and achieve the same thing using less power and having a better response curve, and better sound...IMHO! If some folks think PWK achieved success mating relatively inexpensive drivers in his Heritage line...BOSE went all the way to the extremes of this technique in HIS designs!!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 08-05-2002 at 08:05 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I believe the Heresy was named because it wasn't a corner speaker, not because it wasn't horn loaded. According to the book anyway (page 119). Good stuff here, btw... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Heresy was so-named because it wasn't FULLY-horn loaded...the other speakers of PWK at that time being one form or another of a horn in the bass end of things, albeit corner horns. ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 According to the book, here is the quote on page 119: Back in 1955 I wanted to revive the Bell Labs' idea of a bridged center-channel speaker. I needed a non-corner speaker. I was drawing pictures on the back of an envelope in a bar in Philadelphia. A dealer, who was leaning over my shoulder, said, "That's not a corner speaker, Paul." I told him why I was doing the drawing, and he shook his head and said, "Paul, coming from you, that would be heresy." Well, the lights came on, and I said, "That's what we will call it." If you know something different, please post your findings... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Mike, I have the book, too...and in that quote PWK said..."then I told him why I was doing the drawing..." ...the "why" that PWK told him was left out in the book(as are quite a few other things...QUITE A FEW!!!!...matter of fact, as good as that little book is...it is rife with things that somehow have been left out...and it has other problems, too...)...and that explanation showed his friend that the little speaker would not have a Horn design involved in its BASS reproduction...IOW... NOT FULLY HORN-LOADED!! THAT is the REAL HERESY of that little speaker!! And that is why, after PWK explained his drawing, his friend said: "Paul, coming from you, that would be heresy!" PWK was a major proponent of HORNS...that was his MAIN THING...NOT JUST CORNER SPEAKERS!!! The funny thing is....with the exception of the LaScala's INITIAL design reasons, EVERY OTHER SPEAKER PWK designed that was in the line in the mid-1970's was designed as a center channel speaker!! The Heresy, the Cornwall, and the Belle...all designed as center channels!! The LaScala was ORIGINALLY designed for Winthrop Rockefeller to use on a flatbed trailer while he stumped the state of Arkansas in his bid for governor. ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 08-05-2002 at 03:28 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 fini, I assume the RB-5 uses a bit more beef than the RB-3 in their tweeters, however the ARB 115-1 uses a virtual slab of brisket in their Sub. http://www.starmgc.com/cgmlowfreq.html -C&S ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 HDBR, Maybe you know something we don't, but the way I read that is Paul wanted to revive the Bell Labs' idea of a bridged center channel and needed a non-corner speaker. He then proceeded to draw this on the back of an envelope and when the dealer looked over his shoulder and saw the diagram, Paul explained why he was doing it... which was to design a non-corner speaker to be used for a center channel. There is no mention of non-horn loading in that paragraph. You may be right however... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 Regarding the Heresy: We really don't have any more info than what is written down. However, my guess is that the "Heresy" was the use of a direct radiator; not the corner. I don't think that when PWK envisioned a center channel speaker, he was expecting a corner in the middle of the wall. So the heresy was not the lack of a corner. Futher to this, PWK's papers include the big Bell Lab speakers which were designed to work on stage without a corner. Of course these had very large mouths. It is my understanding that the relative merits of a direct driver versus horn loaded woofer was honored in the original Heresy. He did not pad the outputs of the mid and treble to "match" the reduced efficecy of the woofer. Rather, the woofer was about 8 or 10 dB down and allowed to give its natural output, as weak as it might be. This means he was accepting that a direct radiator could be an okay source, as long as it was not pushed too hard. Regarding "LaScala". PWK commented that the term was adopted as a trademark because it was euphonic. A nice sounding word. (As an aside, Garrison Keeler has quipped the the most beautiful words in English are "cellar door.") Vocalize La Scala and cellar door and find some similarities. Cellar door sounds so Italian! He wished to name other products after euphonic concert halls. Unfortuantely, there are not many, or any, others. - - - - - My recall of classical Latin is that Rome was referred to as "the city". So it is an ancient ideom. (sp?) - - - - In all the debate about LaScala, I still think it is a matter of steps, rather than wall. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 WOW!!! Cornwall! Didn't know that. Well, JBL 4648A-8, means, well, yeah! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! For JBL related subjects and more fun, click: http://www.audioheritage.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry N. Cruse Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by HDBRbuilder: Mike, I have the book, too...and in that quote PWK said..."then I told him why I was doing the drawing..." ...the "why" that PWK told him was left out in the book(as are quite a few other things...QUITE A FEW!!!!...matter of fact, as good as that little book is...it is rife with things that somehow have been left out...and it has other problems, too...)...and that explanation showed his friend that the little speaker would not have a Horn design involved in its BASS reproduction...IOW... NOT FULLY HORN-LOADED!! THAT is the REAL HERESY of that little speaker!! And that is why, after PWK explained his drawing, his friend said: "Paul, coming from you, that would be heresy!" PWK was a major proponent of HORNS...that was his MAIN THING...NOT JUST CORNER SPEAKERS!!! The funny thing is....with the exception of the LaScala's INITIAL design reasons, EVERY OTHER SPEAKER PWK designed that was in the line in the mid-1970's was designed as a center channel speaker!! The Heresy, the Cornwall, and the Belle...all designed as center channels!! The LaScala was ORIGINALLY designed for Winthrop Rockefeller to use on a flatbed trailer while he stumped the state of Arkansas in his bid for governor. ------------------ TNC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry N. Cruse Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Andy, I do agree. As an Arkie growing up with PWK sound, the MOD-H was named due to the direct radiator giant step backward. Paul needed a "Bookshelf speaker" to complete the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Clipped and Shorn: fini, I assume the RB-5 uses a bit more beef than the RB-3 in their tweeters, however the ARB 115-1 uses a virtual slab of brisket in their Sub. http://www.starmgc.com/cgmlowfreq.html -C&S Chipped & Beef, Several years ago, on a trip to South America, I did run into a Klipsch export, the Carnewall. The woofers had turned to jerkey in the hot dry air of Punta Del Nuevas. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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