Forte - Forte II - question

[toolz]

Looks like the cat has turned it's back to the KG's, must be enjoying the new Forte II. 

[expresso]

Looks like the cat has turned it's back to the KG's, must be enjoying the new Forte II. 

shes finding it strange now -  she used to use the Sub to climb on my TV stand and go to my audio rack on top -  now she realized she has to jump higher to get to the TV stand     the sub was a step for her -

 

i woke up today and finished it up -  i put it in there proper place now -  moved the TV over some to make room and actually fits very well in my space -  i have it on the Emo amp -  soon after the holidays i can really sit back and relax and start using them -    i am glad now that i didnt touch them yet -  

[toolz]

Nice setup.  You may want to move the Forte II off the wall a bit, 12 inches or more to give the passive driver some room to reinforce the bass.

[expresso]

Nice setup.  You may want to move the Forte II off the wall a bit, 12 inches or more to give the passive driver some room to reinforce the bass.

Hi Thanks and merry xmas to everyone -   you know it seems as if they are close - but there is room behind it - its not as close as it looks -  its at an angle so its not as close -  i just listened to them for the first time relaxing a bit -  i need to adjust to them - i am so used to the 82's -   its just a different sound all together -  i never had a 3 way - this is my first - so trying to adjust  - the music i picked - really wasnt quality recordings -  volumes levels change between songs and albums -   and recordings are not great its on my thumb drive -  one disk i did play -  BB King riding with the king -  now that sounded much better - quality CD -    i need time to adjust and get to know there sound and limits etc

 

now the bass -  thats a tricky thing -  bass is deep -  but very different from what i been used to -  what i want to do is run my setup again so it can adjust the line signals for each speaker again -   since i have the Forte on the Emo amp which runs the other speakers   - RC62 center and 52 rears surround  -    after i run it again -  i need some time to listen to different kinds of music over time and see -   what i did notice right away is it seems to be very detailed to the point where i thought something was wrong with one speaker -  something didnt sound right -  and it turns out its the song itself -  and the speaker brought it out -   i almost though the tweeter or mid was not working or bad -  but sounds fine on other songs so i am guessing it was that song that was bad and the speaker made me hear it the bad -    

 

like i said i never had a 3 way - so i have to get used to it -  before i can figure out what is wrong if anything is -  first i will run the setup again -  and bypass the exciter i have attached to the Emo amp - so i can run them mostly flat - direct and stereo mode -  but no Sub - i removed the sub from my system -   

 

i have to say - its very warm sounding - not bright at all - i was expecting it to be brighter -  the bottom end is deep - full -  - i will measure how much distance is there from the passive to the wall - just to know -  

 

so a good 12 inches is ok ?    i guess what sounds best -   and thats the hard part with rear passive -   i have it set nicely to fit everything else and not stick out in the middle of the room -  but if you notice its on a dolly - and i have a inch or two free in the front of them -  i did that to keep it balanced nicely -  but i think if i move them forward on the dolly more -  i gain a few inches more space in the rear -   - i cant push the dolly any further back -  its on the wall now - which is fine -

 

it just worked out very good in terms of looks - all evenly -  i will measure - i think it may be about 8 inches at least - but its on an a little angle so it can face me more when i sit back -    

 

the closer to the wall the bass would become more boomy ?  further away  it would be more solid ?  is that correct -  i mean too close is not good and too far you loose the effect i think - 

Edited December 26, 2014 by expresso

[John Chi-town]

Expresso

 

12 inches is minimum in most situations my sweet spot for my room, etc. is 18 inches from rear wall with NO TOE IN.  But room, equipment, etc. will dictate what sounds best for you.  Too close too boomy, too far, weak bass.

 

Best regards,

John

[expresso]

Expresso

 

12 inches is minimum in most situations my sweet spot for my room, etc. is 18 inches from rear wall with NO TOE IN.  But room, equipment, etc. will dictate what sounds best for you.  Too close too boomy, too far, weak bass.

 

Best regards,

John

thats the hard parts since my space i am not too far away -  thats why i angled them to face me more where i sit -   i will see what sounds best -   i sit on the end chair - so the far right speaker is closer to me - i can keep that one straight but the other one i feel if i do that -  i wont hear it as much sitting away from that one  -   it easy enough to try since i can just move them very easy now       but first i will listen to them for a while -   i cant explain the bass correctly -

 

i mean its there - but at times i feel its not hard enough - like a good deep bang -  dosnt seem tight at times i guess -  but again - i havnt really played alot of music yet -  i feel its seems to be best suited for jazz blues - type of music - vocals etc, -   not sure how it would sound with megadeth or something along those lines -    i dont mind if it isnt for that type of music -   i can always swap wires and use the 82's for that -  i can really bang those out with the pro amp -  i guess i expected louder  being they are 99 db -    82's are 98 db i think -  but its a different sound all together -       i need time -      and like every here says -  time before making any upgrades -  very true -  i can figure out the best way to get the bass correct first -  either away more or not angled -    i sit about 8 feet away -  so not very far - 

[expresso]

i checked and what i got is the speaker on the Left  is about 6 inches at the closest part which is angled to the wall and other side is 12 -   the speaker all the at the Right  side is 12 also and 8 inches -   

 

i took a pic - this one is on the left side -  its not a closed room -  a living room open to the kitchen and hallway -  

 

 

[moray james]

a good plan for basic maintenance with a speaker as old as this is to check the gaskets, woofer passive horns and terminal cup(to make sure they are all there) and or replace all the gaskets with fresh ones as they get very flat over 20 plus years. Make a small discrete mark on your woofer frame at 12 oclock high then rotate the woofer 180 degrees so gravity can pull them back into proper alignment. You can twist all your driver lead wires to reduce noise pick up and radiation this works and costs nothing to do. You can check for air leaks by slowly pressing in the woofer and watch for how long it takes to move back out on its own. The woofer should slowly move back out to its position of rest. If it just pops straight back to its rest position then you have air leaks which you should find and seal start with gaskets. Driver screws should be tight if they slip partially fill the screw holes with a couple of sections of tooth picks and white glue let dry and re install screws. This is fast cheap and very effective. This should result is you your speakers working back at as new levels. Check that your horn are snugly mounted to the drivers as well. All just basic maintenance for old speakers like these that want and need just a little TLC. Best regards Moray James.

The gaskets that I am referring to are the ones between the driver,passive,horns and terminal cup and the cabinet as this is your air seal between internal and external. This has nothing to do with "looking for issues" this is simple age related maintenance. With speakers this age they have issues just as a car this age has issues. You can say that it is fine all day dong but the fact is at this age some maintenance is necessary. If you deal with the obvious right away then you will reduce the list of possible problems to check later should something go wrong. Speakers "sag" over time and screws vibrate loose this is simply a fact in the life of a speaker.

Edited December 28, 2014 by moray james

[expresso]

yes very good ideas advice -   i have to say the drivers all look like new - both passive and active - the gaskets around the outside look just as new -

they sound fine - but like all things with age -  need maintenance -   i am not going to look for issues - but as they arise or if i come across something

i feel needs replaced - i would do what ever needs it -   i will check the drives pushing them in a bit next time i have the grills off -  

 

they stay on so good - hard to remove - afraid of breaking them  - i have to use a butter knife to get it started -  strong magnets i guess -  

 

the gaskets you refer to are the gaskets around the driver on the outside ?   or  are they gaskets between the driver and cabinet when you screw it in ?

 

i will check the screws - thats good to do - see if any are loose etc,    but on the inside - i wont touch yet -  in the near future i am sure i will upgrade to new xovers  and when i do - i can check inside - 

 

they sound very nice - i am getting used to them more each day -    i have to play a good drum solo i have from triumph -   i remember that one how it sounded before -  

 

any recommendations on music to demo ?  something with drums - or anything - that gives them a little work out -    i can look it up on amazon - put on disk etc, and try it out - 

 

thanks

[toolz]

Try Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man.  The timpani are awesome in this piece and it will show off he bass capabilities of the Forte II.  Of course there are other music selections but I like the way the brass and percussion are used in this piece.

Edited December 28, 2014 by toolz

[expresso]

thanks i will try to find that one -   any others ?

[expresso]

i finally got to listen to them with music i am used to and they sound very good -  i feel fine about the placement - i dont feel its too close to the wall and they are angled a bit -  i ran setup on my emo pre  and it set it up with the line level and Emo Eq -   sounds a bit more open with the EQ on -  but just as great as in direct mode with no EQ -    i dont feel they need anything done to them right now - but this is a new model for me and never had a 3 way - so i am getting used to them -  i still very much look forward to upgrading them  at some point in the future -    i am kinda of stuck with the Mid Ti -   if thats worth it -  to try when i am ready  - and run the risk of having to get the add on -  or i may just like them as they are -

 

but for now -  i am not looking to do anything to them just yet - just enjoy them as they are -  knowing that later on - they will sound even better after the new upgrades - gives me something to look forward too - 

 

thanks for all the input here -  i will most likely keep the forte II for life -  if i can help it - 

[jjptkd]

I still you think you should steal the titanium tweets out of your 3.2's and put them in your Forte's.

[moray james]

I still you think you should steal the titanium tweets out of your 3.2's and put them in your Forte's.

Some times things are better off left as they are. Best regards Moray James.

[expresso]

I still you think you should steal the titanium tweets out of your 3.2's and put them in your Forte's.

   i already handed them down to a friend -  i will help get it all together in the coming weeks -   i am looking forward to hearing them again at her apt.  with my marantz - it sounded very nice with the marantz and the sub  - 

 

i will later on upgrade the forte also anyway - i a just happy they sound so great as they are -  so i can just enjoy them now for a time before doing any more work -  

[expresso]

 

I still you think you should steal the titanium tweets out of your 3.2's and put them in your Forte's.

Some times things are better off left as they are. Best regards Moray James.

 

Hi james -  yes i agree sometimes its best left alone -  but i will get the itch for sure - and look forward to doing it later on -   i am still unsure about the Mid Ti  or just bobs version -   i tried calling Klipsch but was on hold for too long and left it alone -   and if i do get the Mid Ti  later on -  i will try them alone with out the add on board at first -   you never know - i may just like them that way   -   i have to think about it which way i will do when i am ready for that -

 

thanks for your advice and help  

[expresso]

correct me if i am wrong but on the Klipsch site specs for the forte II  - shows the HF rolls off at 7000 hz -    - i am confused about this Mid ti - 

 

if the original works up to 7000 hz   -  it would seem to me that the Ti Mid should work fine with no added mods to the crossover ?

 

the Forte I  on the other hand is at 6000 hz -  i would think that model would need the added mod for the Ti mid to blend better -  as opposed to the Forte II -   ?

 

i know there is so many different opinions on this -  since i am no expert by any means - i apologize if i sound like a ameture and boring some of the more experienced members here -  

 

i think i am leaning on the Mid Ti for the future -  and then just see for myself if i need a mod or not -   my listening area is treated somewhat -   so any extra mids highs coming from the horns would be helpful i think  - 

 

i know what i found is on the website specs which everyone here must know already  and anyone can check them -    so bottom line is if the Forte II rolls off the HF at 7000hz -   and the Mid Ti  does about the same - i think i seen a chart  at 7.4  -  dont know how much of a difference  a person can actually hear from 7 to 7.4 - ?

 

am i missing something ? 

 

i emailed Klipsch for a price on the Mid ti - complete driver -   but the email on there website is not parts - so i dont know who will get it or if they will answer me or direct me to someone else -  which they have done in the past -  i hate the run around -   i wish they can just put the parts dept email and direct number -  

 

i remember in the past - when i called Klipsch a person answered pretty much quickly and was taken care of in mins -  now dosnt seem the people who know the facts are the ones answering back - 

 

i hope they dont out source to India -  good luck getting info then -

[John Chi-town]

expresso;

 

See below per Bob Crites.  The stock diaphragm goes nowhere near 7khz on the squawker, peaks at 6khz.  The tweeter starts to take over at about 6khz+.

 

Per Bob:

 

I can provide a little technical information of using the Klipsch titanium midrange to replace the orignal phenolics. On the trace below, the red is an original K-53 phenolic diaphrgm and the green is the K-53TI titanium midrange diaphragm on the same 700 hz horn. We see slightly higher average output for the titanium than the phenolic. The phenolic output drops like a stone at 6khz where the tweeter takes over. That allows the crossover to be pretty simple since there is no reason to roll off the midrange. But, the titanium diaphragm keeps on going, in fact heading for a peak at around 7.3khz before it drops off. So, if the titanium diaphragm is used in place of the phenolic without a crossover mod, you would have the midrange and tweeter both at full output at the same time around 7khz.

Bob Crites

 

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Best regards,

John

Edited December 31, 2014 by John Chi-town

[expresso]

i seen that chart -  according to the specs on the site -  i assumed it says HF 7000hz -  either way - doesnt matter what it says on paper if the chart shows its off - its off  

 

 

i finally got the number to klipsch which is on there website -  so basically i did nothing emailing them to get the direct line to parts dept. -  

all they did was give me the same number i could have gotten myself  -  

 

 

anyway - i look into it next year     thanks -   

[expresso]

expresso;

 

See below per Bob Crites.  The stock diaphragm goes nowhere near 7khz on the squawker, peaks at 6khz.  The tweeter starts to take over at about 6khz+.

 

Per Bob:

 

I can provide a little technical information of using the Klipsch titanium midrange to replace the orignal phenolics. On the trace below, the red is an original K-53 phenolic diaphrgm and the green is the K-53TI titanium midrange diaphragm on the same 700 hz horn. We see slightly higher average output for the titanium than the phenolic. The phenolic output drops like a stone at 6khz where the tweeter takes over. That allows the crossover to be pretty simple since there is no reason to roll off the midrange. But, the titanium diaphragm keeps on going, in fact heading for a peak at around 7.3khz before it drops off. So, if the titanium diaphragm is used in place of the phenolic without a crossover mod, you would have the midrange and tweeter both at full output at the same time around 7khz.

Bob Crites

 

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Best regards,

John

i believe if i am not mistaken - you have the Mid Ti in your forte II and you dont have a issue with it or you dont hear anything off ?  i think you liked it alot ?