Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I will be getting my HH Scott 299 back from Craig when I arrive home from Maine next weekend, and can't wait to hear it. Craig has replaced every cap and resistor in the unit, and cleaned it to boot. He said it sounds outstanding but could sound even better with some better tubes. It currently has a matched set of Sovtek 7189's and a pair of Jan Philips 6U8A's that I will leave in. I would like to replace the Rectifier with a NOS Mullard 5AR4, and the RCA 12AX7's with a matched quad of NOS Telefunken's. However, while searching the internet, these will cost more than the tweaked amp has cost me. Should I be happy with the way it is now, or spend the money from a reputable dealer on the overblown priced tubes? I'm sure I will update the rectifier but the prices on the Telefunkens is just crazy (imho). Does anyone know where I might find a matched quad of Telefunken 12AX7's that won't cost me an arm and a leg? Thanks, Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Hey Mike - You've become a funkengrooven machine!! Seems it all started with a trip to go see a pair of Chorus one day... Of course, the seeds were probably planted long before that. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Yeah Doug... and I blame you! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Mike, I took a chance and bought mine at ebay rather than pay those high prices from online retailers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Haven't seen any NOS Tel Smooth Plates from reliable sources under $100 each. Some Ribbed NOS Tel's were at $50 each. Of course eBay has sellers, however, there's the seller risk factor too. I've been wondering how well the RCA Clear Tops perform in the phono stage role? Will keep you in mind if I see some favorable prices. Wish US luck, Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Thanks guys... I've been looking at eBay as well but am unsure of what I will be getting. I just saw an ad for a matched quad set of Telefunken's (the third set this guy has sold) and asked him some questions. I asked him how he tested them and what were the results? He told me he bought them new and therefore they all match. I'm going to assume that they all weren't created equal... Mike Edit: One thing I was thinking about was do they really need to be matched? The 12AX7's are in the preamp stages and I will probably only be using 2 of them (1 phono and 1 line). Could I get away with just a matched pair? See how ignorant I am? This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 08-05-2002 at 11:25 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 The Mullard "box plate" CV4004 ROMPS in the 299 phono stage--and you can pick them up NOS for far less than Telefunken smooth-plates. I have a lifetime supply that I picked up from a guy in Australia about 6-7 years ago-- I think I paid $15 ea for 50 of them. They sell for about $40 ea now I think, maybe a little more or less depending on where you find them. I use my Telefunken smooth plates for drivers in my amps now and box-plate Mullards in ALL of my preamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Allan, would you like to sell 1 or 2 at cost? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Mike, I seem to agree with Allan about the cv4004 box plate ecc83's.I have replaced the telefunken flat plate ecc83's input tube in my Marantz model 2 with these and prefer them to the telefunkens.I did the same in my VTL Ultimate preamp.The telefunken has excellent midrange but the bass is too uncontrolled.The mullard has tighter bass and better definition and is cheaper too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 mdeneen...very good points, price vs. performance should always be considered. Allen...I too like the Mullard CV4004's and I'm very fond of the CV4003, especially those M8136' which are the ruggedised military version of the CV4003 tube. My buy prices ran from low 20's to near 40 dollars for match pairs. They are in both of my preamps/phono stages. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Thanks for the replies, guys. Do I have to have a matched set of these if they are for the preamp stages? If I am only going to use two of the inputs (phono and line), can I just get 2 of them? BTW, how do I know which tube goes with what input without taking the cover off? Thanks, Mike Edit: BTW, I have the Mullard 12AU7 CV4003 in my AES PH-1 phono stage and like it a lot. It is much smoother than my previous JAN Phillips... This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 08-05-2002 at 12:47 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Not sure on the match set issue. But I chose that if the price is reasonable to me. Forgot to mention that good buys can be had on NOS Mullard ECC82's (12AX7) and ECC83's (12AU7). Many times these are over looked as they are not labled as their well known counterparts. I find them a good tube, but very sensitive. So one must be careful, because they can appear noisy in some components. To my ears, good ones can be more revealing than their aforementioned cousins. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 08-05-2002 at 12:45 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Thanks for clearing that up, Mark. We'll see if I can't find a couple for a decent price... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Mike, I'm going to be somewhat of an echo of mdeneen about how much you will gain from a large NOS investment. I hope Craig does not get offended, but considering your future plans to get into something really better, the bucks you invest in the Scott take you further away from the bigger "prize" of truly better amplification. Your LaScala's will sound better with the SET iron you are planning to get. If you are determined to add Mullards, go slower and buy tubes made by Mullard, but branded under another name. Believe me there are plenty of them. Look at the shot of my phono pre and you will find three Daystom branded 12AX7s, but made by Mullard which you can almost read in the photo. Eico, Webcor, and Rogers are other names that come to mind as brands with tubes "made by Mullard". Telefunkens are really over the top unless you are patient. I waited months to find five new 12AU7s at a decent price. I suggest, save your major NOS investment for something much better. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Boy this has been busy thread !! First off the 12AX7s that are in his amp are GE's not RCA's. I think they will most likely do him just fine for the time being !! I find them slightly harsh compared to telefunkens or Mullards. Also Mike the 7189s are NOS Russian military spec 7189s not Sovtek EL84M's(sovtek's cost $50 set matched). The 7189's that are in your amp I can't tell the difference between them and Bugle Boys for the most part. I really think the best gain in sound is at the low level (12AX&'s and 6U8A's) in these amps especially when using the Phono section. I to agree with most of you that spending a fortune on NOS tubes is a waste especially from a tube dealer they will rape you a dozen times over ! I myself buy when the price is right on ebay. Edster scored a beatifull quad of Tele's that matched real good and had perfect marking can't rmember what he paid but it was cheap ! I was amazed ! He also got a great deal on phaze splitters. There's also alot to be said for buying pairs rather than quads ! You get them way cheaper. Also smooth plates or ribbed plates talk about getting pour return on your investment ~!! Just look for ribbed plates they sound about the same as smooth plates at much less cost. Now I totally agree on deminishing returns. I truely believe that this holds true throughout this and every hobby you can get into. You spend more and more and get less and less. This is also true with any newer amp he buy's if he decides to buy a 2K set of Moon Dogs do you really think in comparison they will sound ten times better than this amp. I personally say no way !! So even if he ends up with $500 in this amp with new tubes what can he get today that will match its sound for that money ? Nothin ! Mind you if he gets mono blocks he also has to have a preamp. I think 2K to 3K is what it would require to exceed the sound quality. That makes $500 seem cheap to me ! Craig ------------------ HH Scott 299 Amp HH Scott LT-110B Tuner HH Scott P-87 Turn Table JVC JL-F50 Turn Table Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive 1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers KSW-15 Subs>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Mike, Don't hesitate to buy good tested mullard/amperex GZ-34/5AR4 they can last a life time.Look at the getter and if it is full and shiney,they are probably in a good condition. I have a used pair that are working in my father's office system for 9 hours a day and he's been using them for more than four years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Craig, Thanks for clearing up what tubes I have. I had actually forgotten what I have and did not write them down. To say the least, this has been very educational for me. I agree with the diminishing returns statement but would like my phono to sound as good as it can. I will go with Allan's and Wes's recommendation and persue a Mullard 12AX7 CV4004 for that input, and if I like it or notice a difference, will put another in for my CD player. Thanks for all the info everybody... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 guy landau I agree with you these Mullard 5AR4's are almost indestructible. The Sovtek that is in his amp last about a year is the reports I have heard but hey they only cost $11.95 Edster are you listening ? watch ebay and ****** a Mullard when you get a chance. I was about the luckiest guy I know when I bought all my Scotts (6 in all) they all had there Original tubes for the most part all Telefunken, Mullard and Bugle Boys !! Mike's and Edsters were both robbed of there Original tubes most likely buy the Seller. The Telefunken 12AX7s last almost forever just like Mullard 5AR4s. Craig ------------------ HH Scott 299 Amp HH Scott LT-110B Tuner HH Scott P-87 Turn Table JVC JL-F50 Turn Table Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive 1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers KSW-15 Subs>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Man where do you guy's get these CV4004 so far I find them to be harder to find and more expensive then Tele's ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Craig, Do you know which 12AX7 is the phono(s)? Mike ------------------ My Music Systems This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 08-05-2002 at 05:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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