ShapeShifter Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 After first receiving my Eico I retubed it with Telsa/JJ 12AX7/ECC83S from Ned at Triode Electronics. They are still available at cost of $7.50. http://shop.store.yahoo.com/triodeel/12ax7tesla.html Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 8, 2002 Author Share Posted August 8, 2002 Wes, What do you think of them? Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Mike, They are well built tubes that provided reasonably good sound especially for the price. I used them to replace the less than steller tubes that came with the Eico HF-81 purchase last year. I consider them very decent performers that sound a bit better after 30-45 minutes of playing time. I still have them as additional back-ups or will install them if I sell one of my tube units. They pose no challenge to the likes of Mullard, Telefunkens or similar Top Brands, nor can they deliver to their sonic level. But as an interim, budget or back-up tube, they are a good buy. Wes <edit> I received a pair of 12AX7-EH Electro Harmonix tubes with my last equipment purchase. Same tube as in the link below. Haven't installed the EH's in any unit yet, so I can't comment as to what affect they have vs. the Mullards or RCA Command 5751's. http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/12ax7ehmp.html ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 08-08-2002 at 09:22 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Guys, can I ask a question here? I have an EAR 834P MC phono stage. I've read a few places the designer has stated that tube rolling will have very little or no postitive effect on this amp. What are your opinions? I too have been thinking about changing out the stock (I'm not even sure what they are.) tubes for something NOS. Any suggestions? The most "desireable" 12ax7 prices seem to be in orbit. Which ones are the best bang for the buck? What about interconnects? I'm using Monster M550i's. Are they a major weakspot? Thanks, Chris ------------------ click below to see my rig http://cgi.AudioAsylum.com/systems/2235.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Chris, Find out what the unit has in it before you try to improve. It might help everyone guide you. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Mike, When looking for 12AX7s, many overlook the NOS tubes by Brimar. Brimar hunting can be tricky because Brimar at one point sold out to a company called Thorn A.E.I Radio Valves and Tubes LTC., and there's no telling what you end up with if the tube was manufactured during their ownership. The tubes by Brimar that were "made in England" are very good and I consider them soniclly in the same class as Mullards and Telefunken. They are however not as commonly found or listed for sale. Ebay may have pages of Mullard offerings for sale, Brimars offerings do not fill one page. Shoot me an email for more details. Chris, I remember reading reviews of your phono pre and I believe they have Sovtek tubes as the shipped tube with the unit. Klipsch out. This message has been edited by jazman on 08-08-2002 at 02:36 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 8, 2002 Author Share Posted August 8, 2002 Edmund, I have been looking at Brimar's also since Allan Songer gave it a high mark as well. Will keep you posted what I end up with... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Sovtek 12AX7 are rather lame compared to Mullard or other NOS offerings. I personally dont like anything Sovtek does except for the 2A3, which is a hell of a bargain. Going NOS WILL probably improve the sonics. I think the JJ tubes are nice bargains but do not compete with good vintage. I listened to the JJ EL-84 at length in a headphone amp and got much better sonics from a switch to RCA/GE EL-84. Still, they are good for new tubes as are the Ei. As for the 12AX7 JJ, they have gotten good comments. I just never bought them. I prefer NOS in this tube. I actually think the Mullard Long Plate beats out the Telefunken I have on hand. Telefunken can be good but I think th e12AX7 is a bit overrated. Personally, I prefer the Mullard. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted August 8, 2002 Author Share Posted August 8, 2002 The Tesla's I mentioned earlier should have been the Tesla ECC803S with the Gold Pins, and not the JJ/Tesla ECC83 that is being made now. These were made in the 70's I believe... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 There is only ONE real ECC803S, and that's the Telefunken ECC803S. This is the most rugged 12AX7 ever made--supposedly good for well over 100,000 hours. I don't think they wear out EVER, actually. I've heard of pulls from lab equipment in constant use since the 60's that test as new. I have one of these NOS along with a pair of ECC802S (12AU7) that I've had for many years. Never used it and probably never will. They are supposed to be good hi-fi tubes as well, but I guess I'll never know unless I luck into a few! These sell for at least $200 each these days--the only 12AX7 that is sells for as much is the Genelex B709, which is just a super-select Mullard with super-fancy packaging--almost all hype. But the Tele ECC803S is the real deal--the best of the best of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Anyone have any extended listening with the 12AX7-EH's from Electro Harmonix and care to share your experiences? Would hate to have to drudge through a settle period only to find they lack no sonic value. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 Go with NOS. I repeat... GO with NOS. I dont think any of the modern tubes compete and Electro Harmonix has too many ties to Sovtek, surely not one of my favorite tube companies for HIFI although they have a few exceptions. They are cheap enough to try however. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 Where would used (as opposed to NOS) Telefunkens fit into the scheme of desirability? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 Those Telefunken tubes that Allan is referring to are VERY rare extremely pricey as stated. I have one pair of them. Yes, they are excellent but in my view and to my ears, not quite worth the price by any means unless you can find them in a piece of gear. On the other hand, the regular ECC83 Telefunken is not quite as expensive and a bit easier to find. It is also made well but is not that super select variety. It is cheaper however. I have had several sets of these - Again, to my ears, I actually prefer the Mullard in some uses. I have had both sets of Teles in my phono stage. Used can be a good buy if they are not overused....but that is a guessing game and you must trust the source or even make sure the source got a good read. It is actually common to get errors in Hickok testers with the minipin 12AX7 and this ilk. They tend to measure lower. Telefunken's have reached mythic proportions via word of mouth and online exchange. I think they can sound too bright in some systems personally but the name is so engrained that most just go with it regardless of price. Some Mullard tubes are the same way, however. You need to sample these tubes...and in different applications. Sometimes a tube will work really well in a driver application but be kind of wrong for a preamp or phono stage ..or vice versa. It sure is no exact science. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 "You need to sample these tubes...and in different applications. Sometimes a tube will work really well in a driver application but be kind of wrong for a preamp or phono stage ..or vice versa." Mobile, I'm beyond satisfaction with the all Mullard Set-up. Your last statement is one part of my quest to try other worthy notables. I want to hear and feel what they can elicit, musically speaking of course. I know if that if they fail to deliver, I have my Mullards to return the sonic bliss, so to speak. It's one thing to here what others say the bring, a whole nother kettle of fish to exprience it for ones self. Just want to know without giving up any major appendages or organs for a pair! Maybe the 12AU7's too. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 When buyng tlefunken tubes,always look for the diamond <> mark on the bottom.Only real teles has got them and apparently there were many telefunken fakes with flat plates and telefunken logos(most were manufactured by tesla during the 70's)but didn't have the diamond mark and didn't sound as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 There is another KILLER 12AX7 for hifi preamp use, and they don't have a huge following-- but I have always found them to be smooth, warm and liquid in my vintage gear-- the French made MAZDA. I've seen two versions--an early long-plate that looks like the early Amperex/Phillips and a later (1960's) grey-plate. Both are awsome and I've seen them go on ebay NOS for as little as 20-25 dollars each. But the don't appear there very often, and almost always from European vendors. Worth looking for, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 11, 2002 Share Posted August 11, 2002 If you know anyone with ties to ham radio, or go to hamfests, you might still be able to pick up tubes there. I just looked at an old piece of Tektronix stuff our college had thrown out (my son brought it home, and it now collects dust in his room!). It has some GE tubes and one Telefunken 12AT7. They threw more away this summer, but I didn't get a chance to go through it much. Picked up a Heathkit, tube bench supply, and a Heathkit audio signal generator, also tubed. Way cool. Not sure how it fits in with all my digital audio recording gear. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted August 11, 2002 Share Posted August 11, 2002 While rummaging through my tube boxes this morning, I found two Telefunken 12AX7's, they appear to be new and not old stock tubes. Can't recall when or where I got them? Placed them in the phono section of the Cary Preamp, and to my surprise I like what they convey sound wise. The music display a very natural and well defined midrange, the high end has more detail and imo is much sweeter than the Mullard. The bass was definitely low and deep, but I thought it just a tad bit boomy, sort of like a follow-on ripple to very low bass notes. Not sure I've accurately described it though. Those who favor loud & big bass would surely love these. However, to my ears it just didn't seem as sharp, quick or deliberate as the Mullards. If the NOS Telefunken's exhibit better low end control they are worth the premium price. These two latter date examples are certainly very good tubes...definite keepers. Going to leave them in and see if their bass reproduction changes with more usage. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 08-11-2002 at 10:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 ShapeShifter, The NOS 60's Tele's have the slightly boomy bass that you speaker of also. But I find there benefits out way this. I find they over all sound better than Mullards in my amps. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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