01svtL Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Pictured below is my current setup. Note that I am planning to remake the TV stand, as I built it with my old RC-3 dimensions in mind. I have obtained an RC-7, and as you can see, the two middle columns are too narrow for this monster. My original idea was to have the center speaker located where the AVR is right now (in the pic), and the AVR placed on the bottom where the speaker currently sits. The left/right speakers are RF-5's. The attached picture was taken from my chair with the camera at eye level, so this is basically my view. So my question is, with the center speaker placed where I originally intended for it to be in the stand, will it matter that the tweeter in the center is lower than the tweeters of the RF-5's? Not only will it be lower, but it will also be below ear level, while the RF-5s are pretty much exactly at ear level. I know I can angle the center up a little bit, but I read on another thread where someone made a good point that the sound, sweeping from left to right, would noticeably dip when it crossed through the center channel, and it would distract the viewer, as opposed to a seamless sweep if the tweeters were all in line, or close to it. Another scenario question: there's about 15" between the couch and the RF's, with the lower woofer being blocked from view, so i was considering building short speaker stands to elevate them above the couches some. However, this will increase the distance between the height of the L/R's and the center - now with the center being below ear level and the L/R's now being above ear level. if I did this, should I make my TV stand shorter and mount the center speaker over the TV on that center piece of trim between the two windows? (assuming I can find one narrow enough to mount there that will hold the 42 pound RC-7) How would you guys set this up? Again, I'm planning to rebuild the tv stand. The current one is 48" wide and the top sits right at about 27" high. The TV is a 51" plasma. I was considering rebuilding it in the same design as attached, but 72" wide and about 2" shorter which would put the center of the tv closer to being in line with the L/R tweeters, but again, this will also lower the center channel 2 inches, putting the bottom of the center channel about 14" off the ground (as opposed to 16" with current dimensions). This would also put the center of the TV at eye-level when seated. If the L/R tweeters are above the couches, as well as the top woofer, does it matter that the bottom woofer is below/concealed from the viewer by the couch? Am I being too anal about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Your questions are all good. I have a setup similar to yours, due to WAF requirments. My center is in-line, but my L/R is below ear level. With most real-world applications, the ideal is almost never achieved. What happens is the sound really does follow the speakers. I think you will find the sound stage on your setup will sound OK from the L/R and the C will dip "below" the sound of the RC-7's. I would raise that center if at all possible, and even though the RF-7's have a woofer blocked, they will still sound good the way they are, and of course even better if you move the obstructions. My last suggestion is for you to toe-in the RF-7's a lot, left side to the right side ear, and right side to the left ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01svtL Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 I see. Would it be better to have the center above the tv (and above ear level) or below the tv (and below ear level) with the L/R's at ear level? What if the L/R's are elevated a little above ear level and the center is above the tv, angled down (yet considerably higher than ear level)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 If that were my set I would pull the mains away from sidewalls about a foot or more and a foot or so from rear.I would tow in slightly, just a little, sit in your spot, stick out arms and point at elbows. I'm not a fan of speakers inside a box, but raise it to upper shelf, tilt up slightly, its not gonna mess up your pleasure. The cabinet has much worse effect to me. Above the TV looks too high to me, no back on the stand and tilted would be my choice of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01svtL Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think i have them 10" from the side wall and 8" from the rear wall right now, toed towards center a little bit. That pic was take. Before i toed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 If you are going to rebuild the stand, why don't you put the center on top of what you have now, and just build a piece that surrounds the center so the TV sits on top of that shelf, build the shelf to the width and height of the speaker so it's not sitting back in an "enclosed" shelf. That will make everything ear level. Sorta like a monitor "stand" you would use on top of a computer desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01svtL Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 I considered that, but it puts the tv considerably higher than eye level, and I'm only sitting about 10' from it, so even small increases in height seem like a lot at that distance. The front of the speaker would be flush w the front of the stand, and the back will be open behind the speaker itself. Why would it matter that the cabinet is enclosed in there if the front is flush w the edge of the stand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Am I being too anal about this? No. Building speaker stands might reduce bass (even if they are short). It is not too bad to block a woofer. It is terrible to block a tweeter. I didn't notice whether you have a sub. Get the center tweeter as high as possible under the circumstances. Edited February 11, 2015 by Garyrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Why would it matter that the cabinet is enclosed in there if the front is flush w the edge of the stand? Some people say it resonates sound differently, I do not have mine in an enclosed stand, so I wouldn't know. There is a formula, which I don't know off the top of my head, that can tell you how high (degrees from which you should have optimal viewing for height) that some on here will be able to tell you about. If you're 10 feet away approximately, it may make sense to put the screen above the speaker, if not,maybe just make the cabinet about 6 inches higher then if you're worried about sound quality. If you're running an AVR with room correcti0on, it should make up for any difference you would feel you're getting. But I would definitely try to keep the center on the top shelf.The closer to the screen the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaDude Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) If you're rebuilding the TV stand, with the top shelf at the same height, then make it deep enough so the center channel can sit on it. And then add a rear section that's elevated enough for the TV to sit on. At most it's only going to raise the TV 8"-10". But if you allowed for the existing height of TV's base/feet (looks like 4" or so), it would probably be half that. This would put the center channel almost perfectly level with the RF-5's. In my opinion, putting the center above the TV just re-creates your existing problem in reverse. The RF-5's are also in a less than desirable position. Although it's just one woofer being obstructed, the crossover on the RF-5 is 2500 Hz... that's well into the midrange and would definitely be affecting the sound you're (not) hearing. Particularly if they're only 15" away from the end of the couches. Personally, if you can't see all the drivers in your speakers, then you're not getting 100% of the sound. So I'd remove the couches completely... or at least pull them as far away as possible. I'd also have the RF-5's at least 18" from the side walls (and toed-in), which would help a little more in getting them out from behind the couches. And if you can't get rid of the couches, I'd even suggest moving the RF-5's in towards the TV stand until you can just see the whole speaker. I'd bet the sound improvement would outweigh any perceived narrowing of the "sound stage". Edited February 11, 2015 by GPBusa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasDom Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Can you move the equipment to the long wall and put the sofa there? Nice center by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01svtL Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yea I don't know if I can afford to build the stand any deeper. The ridiculous stands that Samsung is using on these new plasmas (and probably the LCD's too) take up entirely too big of a footprint. Between that and the 12" depth of the RC-7, the cabinet would have to be pretty deep. I'll try moving the towers around behind there like you've suggested. I may see about removing those feet on the bottom, placing the center on top of the cabinet, then building a matching riser to go on top of this for the tv. That would put the TV about 5-6" higher than it is now. The woman has already asked if we can make it shorter if I rebuild it, so she won't be a fan of this idea. She thinks the TV is too high as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01svtL Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Can you move the equipment to the long wall and put the sofa there? Nice center by the way... Thanks! I actually drew it out that way on paper last night. I'm going to send the sketch to her and ask if we have room for that set up. It would require removing the chair from the room all together, but I'd probably be ok with it. I attached a pic of my sketch, haha. I'm back in Houston now, so I can't do any shifting until I move there in March. By then she'll be used to however it is I'm sure. I'm not sure if this would be ok with one speaker near a corner and the other nowhere near a side wall. See attached. Edited February 11, 2015 by 01svtL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01svtL Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 I've read that a vertical center is better than a horizontal for off-axis viewing (which may happen from time to time). What about using something like the RB-81 II in that middle section of my stand, elevated as high as I can get it inside there? Just an idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschsonian Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 This is what I did, got a protective vinyl/rubber mat from lowes and cut it the size of the center and put thetv on top of the RC-35. Then also used my RB-51II's as a high center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetgrey Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Can you move the equipment to the long wall and put the sofa there? Nice center by the way... Thanks! I actually drew it out that way on paper last night. I'm going to send the sketch to her and ask if we have room for that set up. It would require removing the chair from the room all together, but I'd probably be ok with it. I attached a pic of my sketch, haha. I'm back in Houston now, so I can't do any shifting until I move there in March. By then she'll be used to however it is I'm sure. I'm not sure if this would be ok with one speaker near a corner and the other nowhere near a side wall. See attached. Is it possible to try this: Move the system to the wall on the right of it's position on the sketch so you can use the walls to set them equidistant from the center. Then turn the couches so they form a, "V" facing the tv, creating a triangular seating area. The couches can be moved apart from one another to crate an aisle between them for passage and a low coffee table can be set between them. Another fun idea would be to move the couches closer and build some kind of riser, putting one sofa behind the other and raised like stadium seating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Can you move the equipment to the long wall and put the sofa there? Nice center by the way... Thanks! I actually drew it out that way on paper last night. I'm going to send the sketch to her and ask if we have room for that set up. It would require removing the chair from the room all together, but I'd probably be ok with it. I attached a pic of my sketch, haha. I'm back in Houston now, so I can't do any shifting until I move there in March. By then she'll be used to however it is I'm sure. I'm not sure if this would be ok with one speaker near a corner and the other nowhere near a side wall. See attached. Is it possible to try this: Move the system to the wall on the right of it's position on the sketch so you can use the walls to set them equidistant from the center. Then turn the couches so they form a, "V" facing the tv, creating a triangular seating area. The couches can be moved apart from one another to crate an aisle between them for passage and a low coffee table can be set between them. Another fun idea would be to move the couches closer and build some kind of riser, putting one sofa behind the other and raised like stadium seating. until you try the different setups - and experiment different positions - you are not going to get it right - I fiddle for hours, but once I Get it right - I do stop - there is no other way - now if you had wall brackets to screw the speakers to - the imagery would be much more defined as you use the walls to align the sound - that is the pro way - bracket - screws - angle positioning - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01svtL Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yea I won't be building any stadium seating in the living room, haha. We'll only be in this house for a couple of years. May just have to deal with less than ideal listening conditions in this house I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yea I won't be building any stadium seating in the living room, haha. We'll only be in this house for a couple of years. May just have to deal with less than ideal listening conditions in this house I guess Yea I won't be building any stadium seating in the living room, haha. We'll only be in this house for a couple of years. May just have to deal with less than ideal listening conditions in this house I guess. brackets really are great - for sure - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01svtL Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yea I won't be building any stadium seating in the living room, haha. We'll only be in this house for a couple of years. May just have to deal with less than ideal listening conditions in this house I guess Yea I won't be building any stadium seating in the living room, haha. We'll only be in this house for a couple of years. May just have to deal with less than ideal listening conditions in this house I guess. brackets really are great - for sure - Can you post a link to what you are referring to, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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