what's the ultimate sub build? :)

[CECAA850]

Lil Wrecker

[mustang guy]

Dual F20's from this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1329971-lilmike-s-cinema-f-20-a-26.html

 

 

Dual F20 sketch:

Edited April 25, 2015 by mustang guy

[CECAA850]

Dual F20 sketch:

 

You're great with sketch up Craig.

 

You'd have to move the granite if you ever had a driver problem and wiring it might be a small challenge.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I never see any 18" folded horns. Too big?

[mustang guy]

I never see any 18" folded horns. Too big?

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=45

 

and

 

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=95

 

They are both tapped horns.

[Paducah Home Theater]

That first one... oh my.

[Scrappydue]

That first one... oh my.

if you quit playing around and just come up to kansas city you can hear all my stuff and i can get you a demo of two of those gjallerhorns in a ceiling install!!!!!

[mustang guy]

You have to find some massive TC5400's if you want to build the real ones. You could call and ask them if they will make them for you. I think parts express implies that on their website. I rekon they were losing money on them.

[Paducah Home Theater]

Those GJALLARHORN pics are making me get wood.

[mustang guy]

HAHA!

 

Just make sure it's Baltic Birch!

 

[juniper]

Those GJALLARHORN pics are making me get wood.

I heard a pair of these with a pair of orthorns, it was just wrong..... I am sure these can do foundation damage, the studs in the adjacent room were being highly energized... I think each Ghorn had 4000 watts per speaker running them. In the same room I heard a pair of lms 5400 2 per box sealed 7000 wats per channel, and it sounded cleaner to me, maybe the 21" woofers in the horns weren't broken in?

Edited April 23, 2015 by juniper

[Paducah Home Theater]

 

Those GJALLARHORN pics are making me get wood.

I heard a pair of these with a pair of orthorns, it was just wrong..... I am sure these can do foundation damage, the studs in the adjacent room were being highly energized... I think each Ghorn had 4000 watts per speaker running them. In the same room I heard a pair of lms 5400 2 per box sealed 7000 wats per channel, and it sounded cleaner to me, maybe the 21" woofers in the horns weren't broken in?

 

Well, those 18's are noted for great sound quality, and the 21's are weapons of mass LFE, should be a difference inherently. In addition, I worry about ports and horns in terms of details up top though. Here is an email from Nick the owner of Stereo Integrity that explains this fear:

"If you want the kickdrum feel I suggest going with sealed enclosures. I have responded to many many emails asking what the problem is because they purchased multiple 18's and put them in big ported enclosures tuned very low and all they get is rumbling and augmented extreme lower frequencies. Ported alignments look good on paper but many people don't like them because they have too much bottom end which drowns out the upper frequencies. For neutral sound reproduction on the bottom octave I suggest going sealed...especially if you want the feeling while watching live music. "

This aspect is very important to me, at this point I'm not sure that massive drivers in huge horn loaded enclosures will get this sound, especially with emails like this coming my way.

Edited April 23, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[juniper]

 

 

Those GJALLARHORN pics are making me get wood.

I heard a pair of these with a pair of orthorns, it was just wrong..... I am sure these can do foundation damage, the studs in the adjacent room were being highly energized... I think each Ghorn had 4000 watts per speaker running them. In the same room I heard a pair of lms 5400 2 per box sealed 7000 wats per channel, and it sounded cleaner to me, maybe the 21" woofers in the horns weren't broken in?

 

Well, those 18's are noted for great sound quality, and the 21's are weapons of mass LFE, should be a difference inherently. In addition, I worry about ports and horns in terms of details up top though. Here is an email from Nick the owner of Stereo Integrity that explains this fear:

"If you want the kickdrum feel I suggest going with sealed enclosures. I have responded to many many emails asking what the problem is because they purchased multiple 18's and put them in big ported enclosures tuned very low and all they get is rumbling and augmented extreme lower frequencies. Ported alignments look good on paper but many people don't like them because they have too much bottom end which drowns out the upper frequencies. For neutral sound reproduction on the bottom octave I suggest going sealed...especially if you want the feeling while watching live music. "

This aspect is very important to me, at this point I'm not sure that massive drivers in huge horn loaded enclosures will get this sound, especially with emails like this coming my way.

 

This sparks my memory, it was more like raw power, just a wave of low freq, information. The dynamics seemed mushed together. I really like the lms 5400 I heard it in a triangle build and it was resolving the rumble of traffic outside of the theatre where the music was recorded.. it was spooky...

[mustang guy]

 

 

Those GJALLARHORN pics are making me get wood.

I heard a pair of these with a pair of orthorns, it was just wrong..... I am sure these can do foundation damage, the studs in the adjacent room were being highly energized... I think each Ghorn had 4000 watts per speaker running them. In the same room I heard a pair of lms 5400 2 per box sealed 7000 wats per channel, and it sounded cleaner to me, maybe the 21" woofers in the horns weren't broken in?

 

Well, those 18's are noted for great sound quality, and the 21's are weapons of mass LFE, should be a difference inherently. In addition, I worry about ports and horns in terms of details up top though. Here is an email from Nick the owner of Stereo Integrity that explains this fear:

"If you want the kickdrum feel I suggest going with sealed enclosures. I have responded to many many emails asking what the problem is because they purchased multiple 18's and put them in big ported enclosures tuned very low and all they get is rumbling and augmented extreme lower frequencies. Ported alignments look good on paper but many people don't like them because they have too much bottom end which drowns out the upper frequencies. For neutral sound reproduction on the bottom octave I suggest going sealed...especially if you want the feeling while watching live music. "

This aspect is very important to me, at this point I'm not sure that massive drivers in huge horn loaded enclosures will get this sound, especially with emails like this coming my way.

 

The horns are sealed with horn amplification. I think the issue here is the tuning of the sub more than sealed vs ported. 

 

Subs in theaters are tuned down to about 25Hz max. Usually it's more like 35Hz. Movies have LFE way below those numbers, and that's why people reach down for them. It's for a 'better than movie theater experience'.

 

The F20 and the THT are tuned to just below 25Hz, and were designed with the HT experience in mind. Horn subs that are considered more musical and hit you in the chest harder are tuned higher. A good example is the BFM T-30 tuned to 30Hz and the T-39 tuned to 39Hz, and the table tuba 35Hz with a shallow curve below that. Also, many of Danley's offerings are for 30Hz and up.

 

You have to think about what you want out of this system. If you are thinking of going sealed, you should think about comparing them to some of the pro subs. 

 

Here is a Bill Fitzmaurice T30 compared to a T39:

 

Titan 39 or Tuba 30? Here's both, with a S2010 driver. Titan is better above 38Hz for live-sound, T30 better below 38Hz for recorded.

 

Edited April 23, 2015 by mustang guy

[Paducah Home Theater]

Interesting find while searching for some TC Sounds LMS-Ultra's, in which I agree with in regards to the T-nuts but didn't know there was a better alternative.  He is also saying he would have made everything triple thick.  

http://headphoneaddict.com/diy-subwoofer-midbass-module/
 

Edited April 23, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Paducah Home Theater]

Also, kinda strange, just talked to somebody at TC Sounds.  Lots of interesting gossip or whatever.  Dayton says TC wanted to go internet direct and dropped them.  TC says their stuff is made by a third party overseas factory who started producing stuff outside of their specs without permission, which made quality drop big time, so they cut these guys off, and then ran out of inventory.  Apparently they're still hoping that parts express will sell their new stuff even though everything is on clearance right now.  Sounds like a big fat mess.  I was kind of surprised to hear them basically admit that TC's are Chinese subs with significant quality issues right now.  It was not a very good sales pitch.

 

Anyway, yeah I need to study up on these smaller horns, mybe that's the way to go, I've just never heard one and can only imagine what they sound like.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[derrickdj1]

T-nuts and hurricane are about equal.  I have the hurricane style in the old Chase boxes and two fell out when I put the Ultimax drivers in them.  I had a t-nut fall out last night putting the next to the last screw in on the new subs.  For DYI the t-nuts are a little easier to work with for me.

 

Maybe I am missing something with the chest slam between the horn, sealed, and vented subs.  It seem like if you are using autocalibration that the spl for any of those sub types should be pretty much the same.  I can see having one preset for movies and another for music that way the bass can be adjusted for each application.

Edited April 23, 2015 by derrickdj1

[Paducah Home Theater]

Maybe I am missing something with the chest slam between the horn, sealed, and vented subs.  It seem like if you are using autocalibration that the spl for any of those sub types should be pretty much the same.  I can see having one preset for movies and another for music that way the bass can be adjusted for each application.

 

I mainly just can't visualize a single cheap 15 rattling your teeth out like some people claim, nor can visualize a port that massive and probably pointing away from the listener being real defined up top.  I have more than enough room behind the seats or even in the corners, may build one regardless.  That dual F-20 up front does seem cool, going to measure for that.  Not sure I have enough width.  I think I have like 12' between my doors but have to fit two RF-7ii's in there as well.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[derrickdj1]

Not sure I have enough width.

 

That's the problem even in large rooms.  With furniture and other things in the room the speakers footprints make a difference on setup and aesthetics.

[mustang guy]

I was thinking about something while I was at work. Not all horn subs are sealed. The tapped horn subs like the F20, LilWrecker, Gladderhorn, Orthorn, and Danley DTS10 are not sealed. Most of the offering of Bill Fitzmaurice are sealed. 

 

Also, I was wondering what a room would be like with eight T-60's v-plated in all the corners would be like. Not only would you get v-plate loading and 1/8th space amplification from the corners, you would also get cabin gain for the low low frequencies. I imagine it would be insane for music or movies. The only thing is you would need shatterproof windows, and vault type doors.

Edited April 24, 2015 by mustang guy