rayok275 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I'm looking for a new turntable with built in preamp. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 What's your very top budget number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Built in for convenience sake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayok275 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Jim, I haven't given it much thought. I currently running 2 RF-7iis with a NAD c375bee. I'd like to spend a lower amount, but want to make the most of my setup. I also like the automatic setups. Thanks, Raymond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayok275 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Guys, I'm really looking hard at the Denon DP 300 F with Ortophone 2m Red. Does anyone own this table? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comay Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I bought the Audio Technica AT-LP120-USB about a year ago. Price and convenience (USB, built in phono amp, speed control) were the deciding factors. I have since upgraded and wished I would have purchased based on sound instead of cost. I don't have a golden ear and can't tell you why it sounds better. Just that it does. Yes, it wound up costing me more with the better equipment. But if I didn't buy the AT table first, I could have saved that money. Try to listen to some different turntables before you buy. Sorry, I know that doesn't help with the specific table you asked about. Just something to keep in mind. The Ortofon 2M Red is a nice entry/mid level cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayok275 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Comay, Thanks! I currently have a very inexpensive AT USB-60 that I started out with. The problem is that I cant find any Denon turntables to audition. I have listened to a Pro-Ject Carbon with the Ortophon 2m Red and it sounds great on the system in the Magnolia showroom, but the manual tables don't appeal to me for convenience. Ray Edited June 23, 2015 by rayok275 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Focus on the table. There are some pretty decent phono stages out there that are easily under $100. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) But if I didn't buy the AT table first, I could have saved that money. Try to listen to some different turntables before you buy. Sorry, I know that doesn't help with the specific table you asked about. Just something to keep in mind. The Ortofon 2M Red is a nice entry/mid level cartridge. Turntables can sound very different, as can tone arms and cartridges. Ideally you would choose between all three components, as a good match is an added plus. Audition if at all possible -- call Needle Doctor for a good source for component suggestions and matching ideas, although auditioning actual stuff is still ideal. You should try for equivalent quality among all three -- cart, TT, and tonearm. You aren't likely to gain anything by combining two fine components with severely shorted quality in the third. Edited June 24, 2015 by LarryC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenTacey Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Denon looks to be priced excellently? Full Features and Specs I recommend The Needle Doctors business! /www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP300-with-2M-Red-Package Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenTacey Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Will add that phonographs to me sound better without anything other than Table,Tonearm, Cartridge, all separates. My setup? Everything is separate. A friend paid $1200 for Direct Drive turntable (alone) and having the two phono inputs we made easy comparison between his expensive mine "cheaper" he was so sad after about two hours of listening to all varieties of music. Back in the very early 80's you can buy serious equipment for the savings. Belt Drive isolates so much garbage off the top also another tip have your turntable isolated from the speakers rattles and bumps. Them cartridges are so sensitive pick up everything!! My advice look for vintage equipment stuff was built great old does not relate. My Hafler, Rega, Carver.... well everything I bought over 35 years is built indestructible and the music it reproduces through my pair of R-28F's? Wish I could live another 35 years! My setup? 1980 Rega Planar 3 Belt Drive Turntable (thick glass platter beautiful) 1980 Grace G-707II QUADMASTER Stereo Tone Arm 1980 Ortofon 541 MC (High Powered Moving Coil priced the same as my turntable bought it on discount $150) {replaced a still working 1980 Grado 7-1+ Quadraphonic Cartridge} 1989 Preamp David Hafler DH-200 with built in phono amp 1980 Preamp David Hafler DH-100 (kit I built using silver solder) with two built in phono amps (one can be wired for Moving Coil Cartridges) {not in use right now} bought 2015 ($137) built 1980 ($800) Bob Carver M-400 Amp (driving Bass) 1980 David Hafler DH-200 Amp (driving Tweeters/Midrange) (kit I built using silver solder) 1983 Nakamichi 581 Discrete Cassette Player/Recorder 1983 NAD AM & FM Stereo 4020A Tuner 2008 Sony BRD-S560 (Blu Ray but I am using it for CD mostly) 2015 Klipsch R-28F's for two speaker setup in 12' x 13' room Edited June 24, 2015 by AllenTacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenTacey Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 rayok275 automatics will sound terrible through quality speakers I highly recommend belt driven tables. Electronics cause hum. Direct Drive motors cause rumble and hum which is squelched by the other electronics trying to mask the noise. You need to listen to music or is it just background or elevator music you appreciate? Listen once to a $75,000 system then with that experience really shop. I researched in the 1980's when their was no internet, heck what was a CD? Look for vintage turntables & equipment built right around 1980 and look for very low prices, a few dings some people think is junk. I am well able to drive over 300 watts per channel into the woofers but when the volume is set at 1 watt (about half volume) the frequency response is 1Hz to 250 kHz +0 -3 decibels. Normal listening 20Hz to 20kHz +0 -3 decibels the total distortion into my woofs is .05 with crossover between channels distortion more than 100dBs the Damping Factor well over 150. The amplifier I am using to drive the midrange/tweeters spits out 250 watts RMS 20Hz to 20kHz at a flat -0 to +0, total distortion is less than .0005 and crossover between channels distortion well above 150dBs the Damping Factor well over 50. Together both amplifiers cost a total of $337, $137 for the "new" one I bought a month ago $200 for the other that I built over four days taking my time back in 1980. One amp by itself sounds fantastic but the two working their specialties did the trick! Learn the specifications they will save you from mistakes. Turntables it is rumble & hum devastating; a turntable caused by cheap motors directly driving their noise into your preamp. Your preamp cuts the "edge" off of the sound and you are stuck with no stage, singers you do not understand etc. I listen to so much that over the last month I am learning new lyrics to songs I thought I had down pat... So to make music I chose the amplifier with the highest damping factor to drive my woofers. Many amplifiers lack sufficient damping factor or slew rate. A well damped woofer is one that responds "instantly" to the signal to push air out then pull air in. Low damped bass becomes muddy you mostly hear just the wump or the thump. Good slew rate forces wumps and thumps to occur instantaneously. The bass is very well defined and which sounds very natural. You want to know bad bass? Listen to a car with a thumper in it. Tweeters and Midrange speakers make up most of the sound we hear. So we need the most heard frequencies to have no audible hiss and no clipping. The sound is natural and most importantly power without distortion, hissing, humming, rattling and moosh when it needs to whoosh. Great stuff happens when your equipment creates the correctly placed sound stage. With enough power and amplifier control you can isolate and hear every instrument in its place. Listen to Classical Orchestras and you will understand when you can hear 112 instruments with the violins in their sections, the cellos in theirs, French Horns over here, Trombones over there. flutes airy and light importantly located up front. All instruments in their groups. Percussion spot on, triangles with their proper twinkle, piano where it belongs, cymbals glimmer. Inexpensive very high quality equipment has my pair of R-28F's sounding like the speakers are not there just like they been replaced by individual instruments I just have to close my eyes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 You can find great direct drive turntables, the technology has been there for quite some time. Most of the ones with a built in preamp out or usb out the tables aren't as good. A decent phono preamp doesn't have to set you back a lot of money. A good place to look is: http://www.needledoctor.com Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckAb3 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Built-in preamps (at least on Pro-Ject) limit one's flexibility to use other and possibly better pre-amps. (They can't easily be by-passed). And ... if the built-in pre-amp fails (as mine did) the TT is unusable unless you find someone who can open the unit up and work a by-pass of the pre-amp.Pro-Ject makes a good table with a cheap pre-amp which is subject to failing about the same time your warranty runs out based on my experience. I bought it to get the USB feature. Big mistake since we fell in love with vinyl all over again and never used it. Fortunately I know a guy who works in a stereo shop who was able to work the by-pass for 60 bucks. I do agree that the 2M Red is a nice sounding cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HeresyHBR Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 No built in pre in my suggestion: a vintage low-budget turntable for vintage fanatics... ... it looks great ( very clean looks IMHO ) : the Audio Research XA turntable. Link to specs: http://www.vinylengine.com/library/acoustic-research/xa.shtml Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WftJFOEPEpk still possible to get by for a low-cost. .... just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comay Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Built-in preamps (at least on Pro-Ject) limit one's flexibility to use other and possibly better pre-amps. (They can't easily be by-passed). And ... if the built-in pre-amp fails (as mine did) the TT is unusable unless you find someone who can open the unit up and work a by-pass of the pre-amp.Pro-Ject makes a good table with a cheap pre-amp which is subject to failing about the same time your warranty runs out based on my experience. I bought it to get the USB feature. Big mistake since we fell in love with vinyl all over again and never used it. Fortunately I know a guy who works in a stereo shop who was able to work the by-pass for 60 bucks. I do agree that the 2M Red is a nice sounding cart. My Audio Technica had a bypass switch. It only worked 50% of the time. If I used the on-board phono preamp, it worked fine. If I tried to bypass it and use an external phono preamp, it didn't work. Edited June 25, 2015 by comay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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