I respectfully request

[Taz]

You guys do know that there is no correct answer to all this and more importantly no one is likely to be persuaded of the logic of another's point of view?

 

Yep. 

I still ask that the original request be respected. 

[Islander]

Taz, working on the Suicide Hot Line really put you on the front line of dealing with people who feel they have nothing left to lose. There must have been some really stressful shifts, maybe some you'd really want to forget. I hope you didn't wind up with some sort of emotional trauma, because I'd think that to do a good job, you'd have to empathize with the person in distress and in the process share some of their desperation.

Rather than go on and dispense some platitudes, I'll just say that I'm glad you were there to help some folks when they needed help the very most. It's very likely that some people are around today, and not in an early grave, thanks to what you were able to do for them.

As for choosing which country to live in, I've lived in three countries, as well as three provinces in Canada. I was born in the north of Ireland (describing it that way is a political statement), came to Canada as a child, lived in West Germany for a couple of years when the Army posted my father there in the late 1950s, and then came back to Canada. I grew up in Quebec province, near Quebec City, spent thirty years of my adult life in Toronto, and then came to Vancouver Island fourteen years ago after retiring early due to a highway crash. I'd had enough of the big city life in TO ("T-O"), as Torontonians sometimes call their town.

I considered living in Ireland, Florida or California (at the time I had relatives in each place), but after doing quite a bit of research, I chose Victoria. There's the weather, the beautiful scenery, the active art and music scene, but mostly the feeling that people are here because this is where they want to be. It's the first time I've been able to say I love where I live, and that means a lot to me.

The little I've experienced of Oregon has been positive. I've passed through on I-5 during two trips to visit my brother in California, and that part of the state is beautiful. I'm sure it gets even better as you get further from the freeway. It's good that you're living where you chose to live. So many people live where they wound up, instead of where they'd really like to be.

I appreciate your good wishes, and hope you have a long and happy life, too. If you ever make it up here, stop in to hear some music on my system.

[Taz]

One's opinion on any matter such as this depends on the environment you are in. If you are in a city and Country with little crime and violence one would naturally tend to favor gun control.

 

I believe Roseburg in Douglas County has little crime compared to other area's of the country.  Yet I believe most of us here do not favor gun control.   I believe you may have it backwards.

[Paducah Home Theater]

The great majority of potential suicides who are drawn to a particular suicide magnet wind up not killing themselves at all

Aokigahara Forest disagrees.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I believe the effectiveness of any weapon is bore by the user, in other words the right person with a Ruger mini14 will do as much damage as an m60

That may be a bit of a stretch but I mostly agree in general. After Sandy Hook, experts were saying that a 12 gauge pump shotgun could be way more devastating in that situation, yet it is on nobody's radar. I commented earlier, maybe on a different thread, at how much more powerful a 20 gauge youth shotgun is than my Glock 35. You can shoot an MGM spinner target with both and the difference is striking.

The problem though is that these guys aren't trained, they don't know how to reload quickly, aim reliably, what to do if something jams, etc. They tend to favor high capacity mags because of this. Usually these things happen so fast there's not any time for them to be bothered with anything technical. One of the mass shooters was even stopped due to a jam, I think the batman / theater one.

I just don't think that this is the biggest problem out there. Mass shootings are a tiny fraction of the overall violence.

Edited October 12, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Islander]

The great majority of potential suicides who are drawn to a particular suicide magnet wind up not killing themselves at all

Aokigahara Forest disagrees.

You removed the second half of my sentence in your quote, the half that changes the meaning quite a bit. Here is the full sentence:

"The great majority of potential suicides who are drawn to a particular suicide magnet wind up not killing themselves at all – if only they can be prevented from jumping at their preferred spot."

If you're going to quote me, at least use all the relevant parts of the sentence, so you don't change the meaning of what I posted.

As for Aokigahara Forest, its reasons for being a suicide magnet have much to do with Japanese culture, in which suicide is sometimes seen as the honourable or even romantic thing to do, as in the "love suicide".

I'll post some quotes from this article in The Japan Times:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2011/06/26/general/inside-japans-suicide-forest/#.VhxAM4xrZ9A

In some countries, suicide is illegal or at least largely unacceptable on religious or other moral grounds, but in Japan there is no such stigma.

“Throughout Japanese history, suicide has never been prohibited on religious or moral grounds,” said Cho. “Also, apart from on two specific occasions in the Meiji Era (1868-1912), suicide has never been declared illegal.” Lifeline’s Saito concurred, saying: “Suicide is quite permissible in Japanese society, something honorable that is even glorified.”

The tradition of honorable suicide dates back centuries to Japan’s feudal era, when samurai warriors would commit seppuku (ritual disemboweling) as a way to uphold their honor rather than fall into the hands of an enemy.

The present-day acceptance of suicide stems from this, Cho said. “Vestiges of the seppuku culture can be seen today in the way suicide is viewed as a way of taking responsibility,” he observed.

Japan is also subject to suicide fads, and Seicho Matsumoto’s 1961 novel “Nami no To” (“Tower of Waves”) started a trend for love-vexed couples, and then jobless people, to commit suicide in the Aokigahara Jukai.

The book, which this year posts its 50th anniversary, concludes with its beautiful heroine, who is involved in a socially unacceptable relationship, heading into the forest to end her life.

In fact that suicide trend in the forest peaked in 2004, when Yamanashi prefectural police figures show 108 people killed themselves there.

The article is only one page long, and is worth reading. Japan loses about 30,000 people to suicide every year, and efforts are being made to reduce that sad toll.

Here's a comment from a café owner, whose business is near one entrance to the forest:

Vigilant shopkeepers also play a role in the prevention effort. Hideo Watanabe, 64, whose lakeside café faces an entrance to the forest, said that he has saved around 160 people over the past 30 years.

“Most people who come to this area for pleasure do so in groups,” he said. “So, if I see someone on their own, I will go and talk to them. After a few basic questions, it’s usually not so difficult to tell which ones might be here on a suicide mission.”

On one occasion, he said a young woman who had tried to kill herself walked past his store. “She had tried to hang herself and failed. She had part of the rope around her neck and her eyes were almost popping out of their sockets. I took her inside, made her some tea, and called an ambulance. A few kind words can go a long way.”

[Paducah Home Theater]

 

You removed the second half of my sentence in your quote, the half that changes the meaning quite a bit. Here is the full sentence:

"The great majority of potential suicides who are drawn to a particular suicide magnet wind up not killing themselves at all – if only they can be prevented from jumping at their preferred spot."

If you're going to quote me, at least use all the relevant parts of the sentence, so you don't change the meaning of what I posted.

 

 

Really about the only thing that changed from my perspective is that you say your comments aren't valid if we're talking about Japan.  Which, is pretty much true.  Doesn't really matter where it's at, keeping them away from their favorite spot doesn't stop them.  If they don't hang themselves in the woods, they'll jump off the cliffs.  If that's not available, they'll jump in front of the train.  If that doesn't work they'll pipe in some fumes into their car's interior or light charcoal inside of it.  Japan doesn't have a "cry for help" mentality like people over here who make a tiny cut across their wrists.  They mean business over there.  

[Islander]

You removed the second half of my sentence in your quote, the half that changes the meaning quite a bit. Here is the full sentence:

"The great majority of potential suicides who are drawn to a particular suicide magnet wind up not killing themselves at all – if only they can be prevented from jumping at their preferred spot."

If you're going to quote me, at least use all the relevant parts of the sentence, so you don't change the meaning of what I posted.

 

Really about the only thing that changed from my perspective is that you say your comments aren't valid if we're talking about Japan.  Which, is pretty much true.  Doesn't really matter where it's at, keeping them away from their favorite spot doesn't stop them.  If they don't hang themselves in the woods, they'll jump off the cliffs.  If that's not available, they'll jump in front of the train.  If that doesn't work they'll pipe in some fumes into their car's interior or light charcoal inside of it.  Japan doesn't have a "cry for help" mentality like people over here who make a tiny cut across their wrists.  They mean business over there.

If I thought my comments weren't valid, I wouldn't make them. It would be pointless, wouldn't it?

When it comes to suicide, Japanese culture is quite different from most Western cultures, but people can still be convinced not to kill themselves.

Didn't you see the part about the café owner who has saved about 160 people from committing suicide?

"Vigilant shopkeepers also play a role in the prevention effort. Hideo Watanabe, 64, whose lakeside café faces an entrance to the forest, said that he has saved around 160 people over the past 30 years."

Chinese culture is somewhat different from that of Japan, but Chinese people also jump off bridges sometimes. This man has dedicated his life to being a self-appointed "suicide lifeguard" at a large bridge, and even provides lodging for distraught people. Sometimes, one determined person can make a really big difference.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/776210.shtml

[BigStewMan]

Years ago, i worked in a 8 story building that sat near the end of a bridge.   One day, traffic was backed up because the road was closed. Somebody said that there was a guy on the bridge about to jump.  Thank God he didn't -- and we all knew the guy...he was a co-worker.