westom Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) I stand by my post as a POSSIBILITY. As in "if it happens it must be possible". IF there was a surge protector in circuit when the lightning strike occurred and now there is a hum problem it must be eliminated as a POSSIBILE cause of the NOW occurring problem. This is pretty standard troubleshooting protocol. JEESH. Junk science is "I changed something and the problem stopped." That was never good diagnostic protocol. It even violates a principle even explained in a famous soundbyte from CSI: "follow the evidence". Collecting facts before making any change is standard protocol. Reason why was even explained in the "A connects to B connects to C connect to A" ground loop. Changing a protector (a connection from A to C) does not fix the actual problem ( B ). Cutting off a ground prong also eliminated the hum. Did that cure a problem? Of course not. It also only cured a symptom. Good diagnostic procedure also says one knows how a part works. Protector parts either fail open or shorted; do not partially fail. Please read MOV datasheets or MOV application notes to appreciate why a 'partially failed' scenario cannot exist. For if that is possible, then you also said WHY it is possible. You didn't because that 'partial failure' is an often heard myth. A surge protector was connected when a hum existed after the lightning strike. Apparently an AC line filter did not fail and would not explain that hum? Why blame a surge protector and ignore that AC line filter (and many other suspect parts)? JEESH. Arbitrarily blaming one part is not standard troubleshooting protocol. And yet that is what some tech schools even teach. Also why we most (so often) retrain new techs. First the ground loop must be defined. Accusing any of many parts (ie protector) comes later. Edited October 19, 2015 by westom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) A part cannot partially fail??? So nothing has ever been intermittent? It either works or it doesn't? Wait a minute I'm writing these facts down for future reference. When my boss is riding my azz about getting an intermittent problem here at work corrected I'll send him your way. What's your number? Edited October 20, 2015 by babadono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm sorry. I looked up the data on transient suppressor XYZ and sure enough it always fails open or shorted. Open = 10 ohms or greater Short = 10 ohms or less Ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,ha, ha, ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 A part cannot partially fail??? So nothing has ever been intermittent? It either works or it doesn't? Wait a minute I'm writing these facts down for future reference. Technically ignorant implement same logic used by extremists. One unique part somewhere else in the world can partially fail. That means all parts can partially fail? Nonsense. Extremist see everything in black and white. Meanwhile moderates first learn facts. A part that does protection cannot fail partially. It fails completely (catastrophically). Or it remains functional. Extremists rhetoric rationalized, "Lightning happened. A surge protector existed. That proves a surge protector partially failed." A classic example of the electrically naive filling us with wisdom - devoid of any facts, concepts, or numbers. Using that same logic, then all parts have partially failed. Replace everything. Extremist (wildly speculated) denials only confuse the OP. OP should identify a ground loop that causes his hum. Wildly speculated partial failure is not even good fiction. When does a superhero arrive to save us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) redundant - deleted Edited October 19, 2015 by westom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) We still do not know what is causing the problem. And the OP doesn't seem to care about getting it fixed properly and seems content to live with a lifted ground. This lifted ground was not necessary before the lightning storm. These are the only facts we know. Unless I missed something. Wildly speculated denials? Huh? Using that same logic, then all parts have partially failed. Replace everything. Whoa that's a Quantum Leap "Lightning happened. A surge protector existed. That proves a surge protector partially failed." We do not know this. The OP never responded to my original question. Edited October 20, 2015 by babadono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I had a fairly new tube that had an intermittent buzz like hum. Drove me absolutely crazy and the local tech couldn't reproduce or ever hear it. I have a buddy who's an electrical engineer who asked to take a quick look when he was in town visiting. 2 minutes later he found a extremely small, barely visible crack in a solder joint. He re-flowed the solder and poof no more buzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 We still do not know what is causing the problem. And the OP doesn't seem to care about getting it fixed properly and seems content to live with a lifted ground. This lifted ground was not necessary before the lightning storm. Again you know because speculation about a lifted ground is sufficient? Something changed apparently when lightning occured. What could have changed is just too many possibilities. The "A connects to B connects to C" example can exist with all grounds intact. A floating ground is only one of many reasons for hum. Yes, we cannot say more because the OP has not returned with necessary facts. Interesting at RFI/EMC/EMI conferences is a large number of bald men. Someone suggested that is due to significant amount of head scratching when trying to solve these most difficult type problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I sent in a Dayton SA230 amp to Parts express for repair after a lighting strike because of a hum. It was under warranty. I talked to the repair guy and he said he seen nothing wrong with it and it played fine. I got it today, hooked it up, the hum is there. The more I turn up the gain the louder the hum. I don't have time to mess with it tonight but I will tomorrow. Can anyone give me any tips on what I might try or change out? Thanks for any response. I would have a qualified electrican go over your house starting at the panel box. Make sure everything is up to code, then worry about things that plug into the outlets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Again you know because speculation about a lifted ground is sufficient? Again I know what? What could have changed is just too many possibilities I don't think the OP's system is THAT complicated. Interesting at RFI/EMC/EMI conferences is a large number of bald men. Someone suggested that is due to significant amount of head scratching when trying to solve these most difficult type problems. How'd you know I am bald? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westom Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Interesting at RFI/EMC/EMI conferences is a large number of bald men. Someone suggested that is due to significant amount of head scratching when trying to solve these most difficult type problems. How'd you know I am bald? I have seen the light. Edited October 20, 2015 by westom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 How'd you know I am bald? I'd say the forum over/under is about 40%. Safe bet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 How'd you know I am bald? I'd say the forum over/under is about 40%. Safe bet. Ouch. Not looking forward to that. Wait...is that a comb-over-under?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) I would have a qualified electrican go over your house starting at the panel box. I mis-read what you wrote. I thought you said STARING at the panel box. Staring at problems until they fix themselves is usually how I trouble shoot. +++ And not that it matters, but referring to the latter posts of this semi-interesting but otherwise way overly-personal thread, replacing parts one at a time until the problem is fixed is exactly what my doctor does... Edited October 26, 2015 by wvu80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I would have a qualified electrican go over your house starting at the panel box. I mis-read what you wrote. I thought you said STARING at the panel box. Staring at problems until they fix themselves is usually how I trouble shoot. +++ And not that it matters, but referring to the latter posts of this semi-interesting but otherwise way overly-personal thread, replacing parts one at a time until the problem is fixed is exactly what my doctor does... I simply see "Lightning" was involved, they have more problems then they know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I simply see "Lightning" was involved, they have more problems then they know. Agree. I don't know audio gear like I do computers, but when there is a lightning strike there is usually a cascading failure of electronic components even if the computer initially works. First the motherboard fails, then maybe later the HDD, but eventually everything either goes, or is unreliable. It becomes an insurance claim for the replacement of all electronic gear, and I doubt the insurance company would even blink an eye. I know of a school system admin building getting hit by lightning, the insurance company wrote a $100K check to replace all the damaged computers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I simply see "Lightning" was involved, they have more problems then they know. Agree. I don't know audio gear like I do computers, but when there is a lightning strike there is usually a cascading failure of electronic components even if the computer initially works. First the motherboard fails, then maybe later the HDD, but eventually everything either goes, or is unreliable. It becomes an insurance claim for the replacement of all electronic gear, and I doubt the insurance company would even blink an eye. I know of a school system admin building getting hit by lightning, the insurance company wrote a $100K check to replace all the damaged computers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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