babadono Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 If you can localize anything over 50 Hz its probably harmonic distortion overtones you are hearing. 50 up to what? Just for clarity. I don't want to tell people what they can and cannot hear. Sorry for the hijack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 If you can localize anything over 50 Hz its probably harmonic distortion overtones you are hearing. 50 up to what? Just for clarity. I don't want to tell people what they can and cannot hear. Sorry for the hijack. Don't understand what you are referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) I have never read a paper relating localization to harmonic overtones and would love to see one. http://legacy.spa.aalto.fi/research/cat/psychoac/papers/kelloniemiaes118.pdf Most interestingly, even with the subs right next to the speakers and bass drum samples were being played, the subs were localizable to half the people even at a crossover of 55 hz, and the other half couldn't tell. The results were so inconsistent they had to throw it out. Same thing happened with both a natural kick drum and a synthetic one. Somehow we are expecting to come up with a different result and consensus over the web. Generally speaking though at least with most material, they found that they could go as high as 120 hz. Also interesting was that localization did not diminish any further once you got past 30 degrees. Edited December 16, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzydog Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 The DIY dual sealed 18" subs is very tempting...good thing Parts Express and DIY Sound Group is out of the flat packs. I can just foresee all the parts sitting out in my garage for a few months. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Metro, that was an interesting read. Two things came out of the paper, listneing angle and the effect of room modes. The listening angle was tied to sub location in the room and room modes was associated with the amount of energy at a given frequency, at a given point. The modes are strongly affected by standing waves in the room. Standing waves basicaly make some parts of the room high energy point and others low energy points. Harman and Geddes both advocate the use of multiple subs to help the room have an even response. No EQ was used in the study to get a flat response. A flat response does not solve all the problems. Time delay which is relative to phase is also a factor and why measurements, DSP, PEQ and setup are critical in a bass system. The study did find that the XO can be as high has 120 Hz before localization is possible. The study did not conclude that the majority of subjects were detecting the sub below 80 Hz. Even before Pioneer started doing sub EQ, their avr's had a standing wave correction feature which I always felt was just as important as sub EQ to get the bass sounding right in a room. Thanks for the link Edited December 17, 2015 by derrickdj1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Two R115-SW would certainly be budget friendly and the look good with the other Klipsch gear! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzydog Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Two R115-SW would certainly be budget friendly and the look good with the other Klipsch gear! Do you think that would beat out a single Rythmic? I've read some disappointed remarks regarding the R115-SW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) If you don't plan to buy a second Rythmik down the road, I would take the two subs over just one. Why, large room, better room coverage and FR. Don't get me wrong, the FV 15 is one of the best ID sub and would be at the top of my list for purchase. Two subs will allow make each one work less hard and decrease distortion, add 3 db in output which is also nice. IMHO the Klipsch subs get ragged on to much. I still use and small Klipsch sub and have not thought about getting rid of it. If you want room shaking bass, that may or may not be possible but good deep bass is possible with two of any of the subs you listed. It took me several years and lots of upgraditis to figure out my bass system goals. Get a couple of the subs and you will be happy. The forum is here is help you get the most out of them. Everyone is not crazy and want to put 8 subs in the living room like me. That is why I got kicked out of the family rooma and into the basement, lol. Room aesthetics is also very important. Edited December 17, 2015 by derrickdj1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzydog Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 What's the reputation of Rythmic? Are they going to be around for the long haul? Their website looks a bit antiquated. I'd rather buy one high quality sub and add another later if needed. I'd worry that I'd get upgradeitus if I had two of the Klipsch subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Of the ID sub companies, Rythmik has been around for a long time and have a very solid reputation. I would consider them one of the elite sub ID companies for quality and performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Might be hard to pass these up. Link Sounds decent, & cheap enough that you could put one in each corner without draining the bank account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzydog Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Might be hard to pass these up. Link Sounds decent, & cheap enough that you could put one in each corner without draining the bank account. Yikes, that is cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Might be hard to pass these up. Link Sounds decent, & cheap enough that you could put one in each corner without draining the bank account. If you're going to cheap out you might as well look at the Polk subs that NewEgg has for $179. 300 watt bash amp. Lots of people like these. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290130&cm_re=polk_subwoofer-_-82-290-130-_-Product Edited December 17, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Might be hard to pass these up. Link Sounds decent, & cheap enough that you could put one in each corner without draining the bank account. Yikes, that is cheap. Worth every penny & then some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) I'd rather buy one high quality sub and add another later if needed. I'd worry that I'd get upgradeitus if I had two of the Klipsch subs. http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/ http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator-218ht/ Edited December 17, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzydog Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 If you're going to cheap out you might as well look at the Polk subs that NewEgg has for $179. 300 watt bash amp. Lots of people like these. I'm not planning to go cheap. I'm planning to acquire something on par with the quality of my mains. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'd rather buy one high quality sub and add another later if needed. I'd worry that I'd get upgradeitus if I had two of the Klipsch subs. http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/ http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator-218ht/ For the price of the single 18 you could have a custom Cherry THT built to match the rest of your system, it would make that sound like a children's toy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'm not planning to go cheap. I'm planning to acquire something on par with the quality of my mains. The Klipsch subs did surprisingly well down low on movie LFE. The problem was music up high. When driven hard there was lots of coloration / resonances / distortion / something, and it was just a little sloppy. Peaks got rounded off and the sound lingered. Sealed 18's are night and day different in this regard, just stupid tight and accurate comparatively. Down low though, the Klipsch is surprising. 20-25 hz LFE is pretty nice for what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercedesBerater Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) What about this idea... And I'm not well versed in subs so this may be a silly idea...some more clever people will chime in if in correct me. Get two r-115sw's And place up front. They match the 7ii's beautifully.. Have a nice "curb appeal" Then later on.. Install two 18"s in back.. Not sure how this would integrate with 15's and 18's.. But the 15's wouldn't be too powerful or bloated for music / 2 channel.. And the 18"s in the rear would give lots of punch when watching movies. Bad idea? Good idea? Hard to accomplish?? Not sure... But an idea.. Edited December 17, 2015 by MercedesBerater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'd rather buy one high quality sub and add another later if needed. I'd worry that I'd get upgradeitus if I had two of the Klipsch subs. http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/ http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator-218ht/ These are $1900-2000. That's a bit of a budget buster, lol. Getting one FV 15 now and another down the road is a great option. You will be surprised what seemed like a big expenditure, turns out to be not so bad with several months of savings. Most of us didn't go buy everything the first time out and aquired stuff over time. Quality will keep a smile on your face for years and cheap will get bitter to the taste quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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