THXUltra2Experience Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hi, I'm a new member to the Klipsch family and I have some sub questions. I purchased the THX Ultra2 system without the subs a few weeks ago and now I am ready to add one or two subs to the system. The Ultra2 speakers sound amazing but the old Velodyne CT-120 sub I am using just isn’t up to the task. One or both subs will be placed in cabinetry with openings that are 23.75" H x 22.75" W x 22.75" D unless I can place the subs in the room without giving up too much floor space. The media room is 18' x 24' x 9.' I haven’t listened to the Klipsch THX Ultra2 Subs and I was wondering if they are still considered to be great subs? Has the THX Ultra2 Subs’ performance been surpassed by newer subs introduced by other companies? Do the THX Ultra2 Subs integrate with the rest of the Ultra2 system better than subs made by other manufacturers? The following subs are being considered along with the Klipsch THX Ultra2 Subs: SVS SB13-Ultra Funk Audio 18.0C JTR Captivator S1 Paradigm Prestige 1000SW Seaton Sound SubMersive HP+ Seaton Sound SubMersive F18+ The Seaton subs are too big to fit in the cabinetry but they are an interesting option. I will be able to listen to the Paradigm 1000SW at a local dealer but not the other subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) THXUltra2Experience, Welcome to the forum. If you can swing a pair of Ultra2 subs/amp, then do that. Otherwise, all of the mentioned subs would be fine in your room but you might have to go doubles with a couple of them(SB13U and Prestige 1000SW). I will let some of our resident "bass heads" comment further because some have much more experience with the mentioned subs. Bill Edited March 29, 2016 by willland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 A picture of the "cabinetry" might help. Generally you don't want to put a sub inside an enclosure. Front firing sealed or front firing and front ported subs MAY work but it's situational. Welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Has the THX Ultra2 Subs’ performance been surpassed by newer subs introduced by other companies? Ehhhh... not really comparing apples to apples. Too many variables. Some of the ones you mentioned do have nicer amps. Plus, well, 18's and stuff. But, they're sealed, and really need multiple units for great response down low, which gets expensive real quick. On a mild build you may be better off with the THX especially if it lets you afford more subs. Do the THX Ultra2 Subs integrate with the rest of the Ultra2 system better than subs made by other manufacturers? The THX would definitely would be real easy and would visually match nicely. Biggest issue with integration in my opinion is that the THX mains have to lean on the subs for midbass quite a bit, so you're not going to want to get something that only sounds great down pretty low but doesn't extend up high very well. The Seaton subs are too big to fit in the cabinetry but they are an interesting option. I will be able to listen to the Paradigm 1000SW at a local dealer but not the other subs. I have four Seaton F18 clones and three KL-650-THX's, come over and we'll see what they can do. It's the same amp, same DSP, programmed by the same guy, same subs, about same size box, and same stuffing. Edited March 29, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) I also agree that subs don't belong in cabinets. Wives and people interested in looks dream up these ideals. Subs go where they play best. 4 poorly placed subs may only have the output of two of the subs optimally placed. As stated, some or many of the listed subs are to big for the cabinet. A false wall may be an option. Edited March 29, 2016 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THXUltra2Experience Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 A picture of the "cabinetry" might help. Generally you don't want to put a sub inside an enclosure. Front firing sealed or front firing and front ported subs MAY work but it's situational. Welcome to the forum. I agree that it’s generally not a good idea to put a cabinet inside a cabinet. I probably won’t get optimal performance from the sub and there will be issues with airflow around the amp, etc. I think the THX Ultra2 subs might be better suited for in-cabinet installation than the other subs due to the front firing woofer, front port and external amp. Has the THX Ultra2 Subs’ performance been surpassed by newer subs introduced by other companies? Ehhhh... not really comparing apples to apples. Too many variables. Some of the ones you mentioned do have nicer amps. Plus, well, 18's and stuff. But, they're sealed, and really need multiple units for great response down low, which gets expensive real quick. On a mild build you may be better off with the THX especially if it lets you afford more subs. Do the THX Ultra2 Subs integrate with the rest of the Ultra2 system better than subs made by other manufacturers? The THX would definitely would be real easy and would visually match nicely. Biggest issue with integration in my opinion is that the THX mains have to lean on the subs for midbass quite a bit, so you're not going to want to get something that only sounds great down pretty low but doesn't extend up high very well. The Seaton subs are too big to fit in the cabinetry but they are an interesting option. I will be able to listen to the Paradigm 1000SW at a local dealer but not the other subs. I have four Seaton F18 clones and three KL-650-THX's, come over and we'll see what they can do. It's the same amp, same DSP, programmed by the same guy, same subs, about same size box, and same stuffing. I’m in Canada and most of the quality subs are made by American companies so I will end up paying more for USA made product due to the weaker Canadian dollar. I can afford to buy a pair of SVS SB13-Ultra subs or a pair of Klipsch THX Ultra2 subs and matching THX amp right away and with the other subs I would have to buy one sub now and then add the second sub (if necessary) later in the year. I don’t mind spending more money on another brand if the increase in performance over the Klipsch or SVS justifies it. Performance down low and extension up high is of concern so any sub I look at must meet or exceed THX spec. I believe the Paradigm 1000SW will be out in this regard. I also agree that subs don't belong in cabinets. Wives and people interested in looks dream up these ideals. Subs go where they play best. 4 poorly placed subs may only have the output of two of the subs optimally placed. As stated, some or many of the listed subs are to big for the cabinet. A false wall may be an option. A false wall is in the plans and I will be ripping the cabinetry out when finances permit construction of a dedicated theater. I just bought the house a year ago and the cabinetry was the previous owner’s idea. I hate it but I have to live with it for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) If a false wall is in the plans a couple of JTR's Cap or the Seaton Sub/slave will work. Unless you are into furniture grade finishes a coupe DIY subs like the Stonehege or Stonehamer subs and call it a day. There are quit a few guys in Canada building them. A pair will cost around $1000 US for everything or less. They will have similar performance to the best subs on your list for a fraction of the cost. The Stonehammer is not small but and false wall or behind a projection screen would certainly work. There is HT and HT that rocks the seat and foundation. You have to decide how much bass/LFE you want, lol. Edited March 30, 2016 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) I like those other subs but I'd really only look at some of them if you were getting four of them. Otherwise, like the Seaton F18 for example, there's really only so much than two 18" ultimax's in a sealed box can do below 30 hz, and it's just not enough for me. So if you want to go all in, yeah, these new super subs are awesome. You'll pay for it too. I bet two of the THX's would surpass 1-2 of them from 20-25 hz though due to the ported design. The reference 15's can for sure. Edited March 30, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Ive owned a lot of different subs and heard a ton of them as well. From your list I would say get the seaton and add a second when you can. Second choice would be the thx ultra 2 or JTR cap. Then Svs last. The funks are nice but crazy expensive. I think the Svs is nice but will have less output than the thx subs. And the thx subs are really nice. I owned a pair when I had pb-13 ultras. Thought they didn't have the low end grunt but they had way more slam which was fun on action movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The amp alone on some of these nicer subs is just a huge difference. American made SpeakerPower amp that can do 4,000 watts even at 5 hz, for 6 seconds straight, even at like 1.5 ohms, with 5,200 watt bursts. They're just a monster. JTR and Seaton both uses them, as does Deep Sea Sound which is another I'd consider if you were looking at higher end items, and I thought Funk was using them but I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THXUltra2Experience Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 I've been doing some digging to find out more about the sub manufacturers and how they go about building their subs. The curved cabinets of the Funk subs look great but the prices are too high. It seems Funk Audio is a one (or two) man operation and their subs are built from the ground up with their own cabinets, drivers, and amps. However, for the money I'd feel more comfortable going with a more established brick-and-mortar or ID brand. I contacted Deep Sea Sound to inquire about the cabinet build and driver used in the Mariana 18S Sub. I wanted to find out if they were building the cabinets and drivers themselves. I got the following reply from David Gage: "The 18" subwoofer driver is the HST-18 D1 built by Stereo Integrity near Charlotte North Carolina. The SP1-4000 amp with 4,000 watts of continuous power is built in Santa Ana, California. We build the enclosures ourselves in Knoxville, TN and then put everything together and test thoroughly before shipping out." It appears DSS is using quality components from well-known manufacturers. DSS is a new company and I would lean toward Seaton, Klipsch, etc. I sent an email to SVS to find out where their subs are made and I got the following response from customer service: "SVS products are designed and engineered in the USA, and manufactured in Asia to SVS specifications, under direct SVS supervision. All SVS products shipped from our OH facility undergo a comprehensive QC and audio check by our factory technicians before being shipped to the customer." SVS subs might not be the best but their customer service is supposed to be quite good. The Seaton SubMersive cabinets are CNC'd by WW Speaker Cabinets and I was not able to find info on the drivers and amps. Does anyone know if the drivers and amps are made by Seaton or purchased elsewhere? I don't recall seeing a photo of the driver used in the SubMersive HP+ or F18+. JTR uses Baltic Birch construction in their Captivator S1 and again I was not able to find info on the origins of the drivers and amps. I've cut the sub choices down to the THX Ultra2 Subs, SubMersive HP+, SubMersive F18+, JTR Captivator S1, and SVS SB13-Ultra. On a side note, it's always interesting to read about comparisons between these subs and the JL Audio Fathom, Velodyne DD+, and top-of-the-line Paradigm subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiey60 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I may have missed it but have you seen the reviews and tests on databass? Those ultra expensive subs like the paradigm and the dd18+ are equalled or bested by a lot of other subs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Funk Audio is a one (or two) man operation and their subs are built from the ground up with their own cabinets, drivers, and amps. Seriously doubt that a single person or even him and his buddy is going to engineer and manufacture the amps, drivers, and enclosures. They're going to contract stuff out and rebrand it just like everybody else does. I contacted Deep Sea Sound to inquire about the cabinet build and driver used in the Mariana 18S Sub. I wanted to find out if they were building the cabinets and drivers themselves. I got the following reply from David Gage: "The 18" subwoofer driver is the HST-18 D1 built by Stereo Integrity near Charlotte North Carolina. The SP1-4000 amp with 4,000 watts of continuous power is built in Santa Ana, California. We build the enclosures ourselves in Knoxville, TN and then put everything together and test thoroughly before shipping out." It appears DSS is using quality components from well-known manufacturers. DSS is a new company and I would lean toward Seaton, Klipsch, etc. This guy uses something like 7 layers of baltic birch for the baffle alone on the 24" boxes which ends up being over 200 pounds. I don't think you'll have any problem with the cabinet build. Yes the drivers are Stereo Integrity. The 24's also come from SI. The Seaton SubMersive cabinets are CNC'd by WW Speaker Cabinets and I was not able to find info on the drivers and amps. Does anyone know if the drivers and amps are made by Seaton or purchased elsewhere? I don't recall seeing a photo of the driver used in the SubMersive HP+ or F18+. The F18 is an Ultimax 18, and I'm pretty sure that the Submersive is made by Acoustic Elegance. The amps are SpeakerPower. JTR uses Baltic Birch construction in their Captivator S1 and again I was not able to find info on the origins of the drivers and amps. JTR also uses SpeakerPower amps, pretty sure they use customized drivers from Fi Car Audio on things like the Captivator S1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 As for that speaker cabinet company, I asked a VP straight up if they make those, he claimed they only made proof of concept type stuff. I know Seaton has an in-house cabinet shop, so I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 The Klipsch THX sub system is amazing! They keep up with my LS/CW setup just fine and that's a big order! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 question - how many cubic feet is your listening space? THX standard for which all these are designed is 3000 ft3. More air means more power if you want a true THX experience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THXUltra2Experience Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 As for that speaker cabinet company, I asked a VP straight up if they make those, he claimed they only made proof of concept type stuff. I know Seaton has an in-house cabinet shop, so I dunno. I spent some time reading through the Seaton forum and did not see any reference to an in-house cabinet shop. This is the only cabinet maker they mention: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/behind-the-scenes-submersives-in-the-making-5489409 I assumed the cabinets were outsourced and Seaton installed the drivers and amps. There's no doubt they make a quality product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THXUltra2Experience Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 question - how many cubic feet is your listening space? THX standard for which all these are designed is 3000 ft3. More air means more power if you want a true THX experience. The room is 3900 ft3. If I decide to go with the Klipsch THX Ultra2 I will probably order 2 THX amps and 2 THX subs and then use the Sub 1 and Sub 2 preout connectors on my Marantz AV7702mkII. Audyssey should calibrate the subs separately when they are connected to Sub 1 and Sub 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 For the kind of money you're talking about on the others, you could have four thx and do it the right way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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