Few questions regarding best sound quality for cd playback

[toomnymods]

I'm looking to increase my sound quality while playing audio cd's but don't have a clue in this new "digital" world of how and what and where to play the files from or even what format to record them to. I want the clearest sound possible and my friend told me that adding a preamp / processor would help my sound stage immensely for my movies and home audio. I'm already planning to add a Emotiva XPA-5 external amp to take the L/C/R and L & R surround duties off of my Yamaha RX-A3050's plate. This should hopefully free up some headroom on the yammie and get more wattage to the rear surrounds and my 4 atmos speakers. Which preamp/processor would you guys look at getting? Really don't want to spend over $3,000 on this but I know this is probably one of the most important pieces of the puzzle. I noticed that Emotiva's XMC-1 pre/pro looks nice but is missing the DTS-x, and Atmos processing capability. Would the Yamaha version be better?

What type of device should I be using to play my cd music from? I noticed Bluetooth from my phone while convenient  sounds horrible imo. I recently bought a S1 Digital media server http://s1digital.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/S1Digital-SpecSheet-H5CD.pdf

and have been using this for the past 2 months and definatly sounds better than the "Bluetooth route" still lacks superior sound quality. Maybe I just don't have it hooked up with the best audio output wire to the yammie.   Right now I have it hooked up via the optical port and everything I've been playing is "straight off the cd" with no compression or conversion. but still says 48khz when looking at the quality of the audio. Says its capable of playing 192khz how do I get the max audio sound quality out of this thing?

[willland]

I would give the Yamaha 3050 a fighting chance first before switching to a pre/pro.  From my understanding, the Yamaha RX-A3050 preamp/processing section is near but not exactly the same as in Yamaha's praised CX-A5100 pre/pro.  Your 3050 is Yamaha's flagship AVR and is packed with just about all the bell's and whistles you can get.  Add the XPA-5 and see/hear what you get and tweak accordingly.

 

Remember, there will always be something "better" out there.

 

Bill

[Chris A]

Right now I have it hooked up via the optical port and everything I've been playing is "straight off the cd" with no compression or conversion. but still says 48khz when looking at the quality of the audio. Says its capable of playing 192khz how do I get the max audio sound quality out of this thing?

 

I've found that the optical TOSLINK S/PDIF is actually crippled by the manufacturers to preclude piracy. 

 

CD is 44.1 kHz, so if it's saying 48 kHz, something is converting to PCM internally.  I've found on my pre/pro that this conversion is a significant source of degrading the sound quality (SQ).  Selecting "bitstream" instead of "PCM" output is usually the way to preclude these issues.

 

USB usually has some issues, so I usually recommend HDMI, since it has the least crippling aspects of DCRM on the SQ.  YMMV.  If you cannot play SACDs in native DSD, and it says "DSD" in the display, then something is usually converting to 48 kHz PCM and degrading the SQ.

 

I've had no issues with the Onkyo pre/pro and separate amplifiers.  This cost considerably less than $3K...closer to $1K refurbished.

 

Chris

Edited May 26, 2016 by Chris A

[toomnymods]

 

Right now I have it hooked up via the optical port and everything I've been playing is "straight off the cd" with no compression or conversion. but still says 48khz when looking at the quality of the audio. Says its capable of playing 192khz how do I get the max audio sound quality out of this thing?

 

I've found that the optical TOSLINK S/PDIF is actually crippled by the manufacturers to preclude piracy. 

 

CD is 44.1 kHz, so if it's saying 48 kHz, something is converting to PCM internally.  I've found on my pre/pro that this conversion is a significant source of degrading the sound quality (SQ).

 

USB usually has some issues, so I usually recommend HDMI, since it has the least crippling aspects of DCRM on the SQ.  YMMV.  If you cannot play SACDs in native DSD, and it says "DSD" in the display, then something is usually converting to 48 kHz PCM and degrading the SQ.

 

I've had no issues with the Onkyo pre/pro and separate amplifiers.  This cost considerably less than $3K...closer to $1K refurbished.

 

Chris

 

so hooking up via hdmi would offer better sound quality? I don't know if that is a hdmi input or output? this thing didn't come with any type of instructions and ive been trying to call this company for the past week and they never answer the phone. this has been the most aggravating experience ive ever been thru in my life. took me 3 weeks just to rip half of my audio disks and I gave up doing anymore cause the audio quality still isn't up to my liking. what is a sacd? and DSD? I don't have a clue about any of this and all these formats.

[Chris A]

HDMI has DCRM embedded in its protocols:  the movie studios trust that no one is going to try to break that security, so they don't demand to degrade the video or the sound quality by the hardware manufacturers because of the security environment that's established for HDMI.

 

USB has significant power supply and/or jitter issues, and usually has some form of limitation on transmitting DSD data streams, perhaps others, too.

 

Optical S/PDIF (TOSLINK) is the worst of all about being crippled from a sound quality standpoint.  However, it works well to isolate floating ground issues - like common mode noise from broadcast television to the pre/pro.

 

Chris

Edited May 26, 2016 by Chris A

[Chris A]

SACD is "Super Audio Compact Disc", and is in Direct Stream Digital (1-bit delta sigma) format.  Sony pushed this format for a number of years as the new "audiophile quality" format.  I've found that it usually sounds better on recently recorded discs, but only because the mastering engineers couldn't screw up the music tracks in the name of "commercialization". 

 

If you don't play SACDs. then don't worry about it.  What I've found, however, is that if your digital data stream from your player to your preamp/DAC is incapable of handling DSD data streams off of SACDs, then something is usually intruding into the sound quality itself.  Once you free up the data pathway to handle DSD, then nothing is converting to 48 kHz PCM behind your back.  This is a real issue that I've found in setting up multichannel-capable setups.

 

Chris

Edited May 26, 2016 by Chris A

[toomnymods]

so the best way to run the output audio wires would be either HDMI output if this player actually has one. It's not labeled input or output so who knows what it is.. I guess the other option would be analog outputs such as a rca wire? to the single analog output which is the orange output correct? heres a link to the picture of what I'm talking about  http://s1digital.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/S1Digital-SpecSheet-H5CD.pdf

 

Sorry for being so ignorant and asking all the dumb questions, lol I've spent well over 10k bucks in the past 3 months and just really mad all of this is so difficult. I haven't really had any audio purchases in the last 15 years as far and audio equipment so a ton of this is new to me.

Edited May 26, 2016 by toomnymods

[Chris A]

That HDMI port is bi-directional, but since this is a digital player, it's basically operating in output mode only.

 

I've found on my setup that using RCA analog cables produces the worst sound quality of all due to the conversion to analog being done in the player (usually not the best DACs and analog amplifiers are found in the player).  The AVP (pre/pro) or AVR usually has the best DACs and analog amplification.  It's also crucial to keep the transmission of the information in the digital domain across wires, as it eliminates noise from creeping in through external wiring acting as antennas.

 

YMMV.

 

Chris

Edited May 26, 2016 by Chris A

[Chris A]

It also appears that your player doesn't handle DSD.  So you'll not have to worry about that subject.

 

But default internal conversion to 48 kHz PCM before transfer to your AVP or AVR is always something to be vigilant about preventing from occurring.  I've found that this process (the conversion) is extremely degrading to sound quality.  It shouldn't be...but it is.

 

Chris

Edited May 26, 2016 by Chris A

[toomnymods]

Many thanks for all of your help.. now I just need to find out how to get into the server and see what format these files are being ripped to. seems that FLAC or AIFF would be my best option for sound quality correct? knowing the guy that hooked all of this up for me he probably chose damn mp3 as the conversion process. only way to get into this device is to log onto it thru my internet, but I don't know the address of it, so that's another problem. need the address so I can reconfigure this thing.. lol

[Chris A]

Lossless PCM (flac, AIFF, etc.) is the way to go in my experience.

[willland]

If you are ripping CD's in a lossless format(FLAC, WAV, AIFF), then you do not want any upsampling from 44.1kHz to 48kHz.  As mentioned, most if not all the time it will degrade the signal some. 

 

Read this and it may enlighten some.  I am just getting to where I understand these things a bit more than a year or so ago.

 

http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/2013/02/04/the-science-of-sample-rates-when-higher-is-better-and-when-it-isnt/

 

Bill

[Schu]

no up sampling and no tos... what are you using for your digital to analog conversion?

Edited May 26, 2016 by Schu

[toomnymods]

no up sampling and no tos... what are you using for your digital to analog conversion?

If im playing songs from this media server i wouldnt be converting the signal at all correct? I dont really know how all this crud works, I just know for the amount of money I've paid it should sound a whole lot better than it does currently.

Only thing i could thing currently that would be doing any converting is just my yamaha rx-a3050 receiver

[Ceptorman]

Just curious….what speakers do you have?

[toomnymods]

Klipsch RP-280FA towers, RP-450CA, RP-250S for sides and rear surrounds, and CDT-5800II ceiling atmos speakers

[Ceptorman]

Nice….those should sound great. I hope you get it all sorted out.

[toomnymods]

I dont know what excactly i did but none of my connections changed, all i did was unplug the network cable as i was trying to get into the user interface with my laptop, lol i dont know anything about networking, i found out where to get into it at but still cant get in

It keeps saying the device cant be found, but yet it pulls up a S1 digital user interface when i go to http:/ mys1digital.com it shows my device and its actual specific location in my house on my network, but wont let me connect to it when i push the button that says setup..

After giving up on that i then couldnt get my s1 digital server to connect back to my network and it wouldnt play music, so i figured it was like a computer and just needed a reboot, did that and now all of a sudden i have AWESOME LOSSLESS SOUND!! It sounds 10-20x better and i can hear every tiny litte detail of my music!!

Guess for some reason it kept trying to send out corrupted data before as it was showing 48khz as the bitrate.. Now it clearly displays PCM 44.1khz in the onscreen info for my receiver.

Thanks for all your help so happy to finally get to hear my speakers live up to thier potential

[Gilbert]

"Njoe Tjoeb 4000" with Upsampler option has excellent CD playback and is worth considering.

[pbphoto]

I would give the Yamaha 3050 a fighting chance first before switching to a pre/pro.  From my understanding, the Yamaha RX-A3050 preamp/processing section is near but not exactly the same as in Yamaha's praised CX-A5100 pre/pro.  Your 3050 is Yamaha's flagship AVR and is packed with just about all the bell's and whistles you can get.  Add the XPA-5 and see/hear what you get and tweak accordingly.

 

Remember, there will always be something "better" out there.

 

Bill

FWIW, I agree with Bill's approach.  Upgrade the amp, use the RX-A3050 as a preamp/processor (and amp for some of the light-weight channels), and this combo will be tough to beat.  If there's a weak link in your sound-quality chain, it will not be the RX-A3050 used as a preamp/processor.