Paducah Home Theater Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Way off topic, I know. Basically I'm building a ghetto smallish 21x23 pole barn / oversized car port on the cheap for my tractor. I can't justify paying somebody for a nice one right now so I just took off and started myself. I have the posts up as well as one row of the boards on top of them, there are 5 posts on each side so it's not super spread out. The problem with the posts is that there are golf ball sized to softball sized rocks everywhere that I'm building, and digging holes big enough for a 6x6 in a straight line was way harder than it sounds, so there's 4x4's and it's not perfectly square since I'm not exactly just digging through dirt. I had about the hardest time imaginable digging these holes, even with a real nice auger. Anyway, I need to get a roof on it next. My question is, would it be better to use untreated trusses, or given the situation, would it be easier / better / cheaper to use long boards, like put another row of posts in the middle that is taller, then use treated lumber to make the substructure of the roof? I don't know how I'm going to man handle 23' trusses without getting a crane or some help now that I think about it. Having treated lumber seems like a good thing, plus I have a lean-to that is connecting to the roof, seems like that would be easier to build in this manner. Basically attach one end to the center row, and it would just keep going all the way to the posts for the lean-to. What do you think? Below is what I'm dealing with. The part on the right has to be lumber but I'm trying to see if the part on the left needs to be trusses or if I need more taller posts in the middle then build a roof out of boards. It's just two garage bays with an open front so having the posts in the middle isn't THAT big of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 At the least you should notch those 4x4's to hold the weight of the roof up. I would double those up due to the span and throw legs under if it was mine. Truss is easiest, buy or build your own. Make a jig if building your own so they are the same. String your work so the framing doesn't look like lake Michigan on a windy day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 23 minutes ago, jason str said: String your work so the framing doesn't look like lake Michigan on a windy day. I tried but given the rock situation I still screwed up a little. You can see a string on top on the left. The yellow thing on the corner post is a spool. Really the only thing that is off enough to matter is the one in the middle on the right side. I don't know what to do about it but it's under the lean-to so it's not AS big of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 57 minutes ago, jason str said: At the least you should notch those 4x4's to hold the weight of the roof up. I would double those up due to the span and throw legs under if it was mine. Truss is easiest, buy or build your own. Make a jig if building your own so they are the same. Also wouldn't putting another row of posts in the middle help out with the weight distribution considering the 4x4 situation? If I did that, you've got the outside holding up one end of an 11.5' board. Use trusses and that same end is holding up half of a 23' truss. I'm obviously no structural engineer but wouldn't that help? There's no way I'm building my own truss, they are cheap enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 The 4x4's are fine, you need to notch them or put a leg under the existing roof supports you have up there already. An alternative is cut the 4x4's to length and set the header on top of them rather than nailing on the side using a leg or notch. You will need lots of help putting up trusses that span or a few guys and a crane to support the truss while its nailed in place. Trusses will cost quite a bit more than building them yourself but it does save some labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Don't want to make guesses about you verbally described, so if you have a conceptual framing plan (rough sketch with dim's) that would be a significant help, before I can give my 2 cents worth? By observation, and based on the assumption that you're not installing a second floor or subjected to heavy roof loads, e.g. (snow, clay tiles, etc.), I seriously doubt you need wood trusses. The roof loads, joist span and decking type will dictate the span between roof joist/purlins/etc. If roof deck is to be tin, what gage thickness and type are you working with? Or are you using OSB decking? Treated wood is certainly the way to go, especially since you likely won't build it right anytime soon. That's usually the way those things go, at least with me and everyone I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I know what you're in to. I bush hog several rocks every year, they grow a little more each time. Every time i dig, I hit rocks, sometimes the size of a piano or larger.... I feel your pain. There are online charts for snow loads. A gable slope has a vector force of down and out. Keeping it from going down is proportional to keeping the supports from moving out. You're reckoning with either tying the side posts together with a horizontal member, making the intersection at the peak of the gable stout enough, or posts in the center to cancel the outward force. Having a strap (member) to keep the side post from spreading doesn't mean that they have to meet the post. Imagine the roof joists looking like a letter A, where the cross member is not all the way down to the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Regarding the rocks, this is being built on a parking lot for 18 wheelers. They hauled in rip rap as a base, dumped other rock on it 18" thick, then drove big rig trucks on it for 30 years. Total pita to do anything with. I was hoping to save money and just use it as the floor for awhile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtmudd Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 http://www.pole-barn.info/how-to-build-pole-barn.html https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=cjxf6-es8e0 https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=6Cs_l9Zk5oI https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=5azaIqtTsds https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=gq3uKnKTR9I https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ZIgG9wg0SHQ https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=aXMU97CJxgs https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=dlpWEEte-20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 I used to have a 24x48 building with 11' ceilings and 10' doors, had to give it up when we moved, that really sucked. The buyer never even used it, was a total waste. The most they ever did was roller skate inside of it a few times. Only thing I thought was odd is that multiple 2xsometing's were used in leiu of a post. Most people just get 16' 6x6's and poke it into the ground. These guys just layered the 2x's together except they weren't even long enough, they actually stuck short pieces into the ground then kept building up until they got the height that they wanted. I thought it was crazy but Morton Buildings supposedly does this same exact thing, apparently it keeps the posts from warping. I don't see how they don't rot out pretty quickly though, 2x lumber usually isn't rated for ground contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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