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Youthman

LaScala Crossover and Tweeter Differences

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@WakeJunkie has a pair of LaScalas with mismatched tweeters (one K77 and one K77m).  He also has AL crossovers.

 

My LaScalas have K77m tweeters with AA crossovers.  His wife says she theirs do not sound as good as mine do.  I know room acoustics could be a factor but my question is there a general consensus as to a preferred crossover and tweeter?

 

He found on Bob's website where he says "We do not build the AK, AL, or AB crossovers since they are generally considered to be "not the best""

 

Thoughts?

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I replaced an AL with a newly recapped AA and the difference was extremely noticeable. I am sure that it was not a fair comparison since the AA was rebuilt and the AL was 30+ years old, but the improvement was there by a large margin. The AL and AB that I have had all seemed to work fine until I got around to replacing and realized what I was missing. Went with the A4500 to replace the AB along with a tweeter upgrade, found it to be very satisfying. There must be a reason so many don't care for the AL/AB and that Bob doesn't think it is worth the effort to rebuild. FWIW

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17 minutes ago, MookieStl said:

I replaced an AL with a newly recapped AA and the difference was extremely noticeable. I am sure that it was not a fair comparison since the AA was rebuilt and the AL was 30+ years old, but the improvement was there by a large margin. The AL and AB that I have had all seemed to work fine until I got around to replacing and realized what I was missing. Went with the A4500 to replace the AB along with a tweeter upgrade, found it to be very satisfying. There must be a reason so many don't care for the AL/AB and that Bob doesn't think it is worth the effort to rebuild. FWIW

Great info, thanks!  Would you mind elaborating on how noticeable?  Were they brighter etc.

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BTW.  We love the bright sound and never have thought any Klipsch to harsh.  

Can someone tell me the difference between the CT125 and K77M.

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2 minutes ago, WakeJunkie said:

Great info, thanks!  Would you mind elaborating on how noticeable?  Were they brighter etc.

I guess you could say "brighter" but I think clearer better describes it. Everything was a little more crisp and clean. I felt I could identify more instruments and more subtle nuances in many tracks.

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9 minutes ago, WakeJunkie said:

BTW.  We love the bright sound and never have thought any Klipsch to harsh.  

Can someone tell me the difference between the CT125 and K77M.

I would never consider myself a good reference when it comes to subtle differences or how to accurately describe them. I have always been a fan of the various versions of the K77, but I switched out a pair with the CT 125 so I could utilize the 4500hz crossover which the 77 wouldn't like. I found the CT125 slightly less bright but very clear, but I had also just put in a new xover in place of the AB. That might have been the difference. I did take the K77 and slap them into a beater pair of La Scala's  I was refurbishing and they continue to rock and still sound very nice to me. IMO there is not a huge difference between them if they are all operating properly. Both sound great to me.

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Disclaimer:  I read a lot, but I am NOT the expert.  I consider the people to listen to are the ones who own the various XO's and the ones who have listened to them.

+++

 

In General:  The Type AA is the most commonly used XO and is favored by most people.  It is smooth and sounds good at typical listening volumes.

 

There are two basic mid-range drivers used with the AA, the older K-55-V and the newer updated/upgraded K-55-M.  The  V has a XO point of 6Khz but has a well known drop off between between about 4500 Hz and 5K hz.  The M eliminates that dip.  PWK was aware of it and made the point that it couldn't be heard.  I personally tried both on the L/R Khorns and I couldn't hear any difference.

 

Still, that dip bothers people so to deal with it there is a XO that crosses at 4500 Khz, but you have to swap to the Crites CT-120 or CT-125 because they are more robust and can cross at the lower 4500 Hz XO point.

 

The shallow slope crossovers are better at the levels regular folks listen, and the steeper slope XO's are super clean and articulate for those who listen louder.

+++

 

You will find people who can argue for and against everything I've just laid out, and I'm sure I made some technical mistakes in my summation.  I am in the camp of going with stock AA setup and replace the old caps with stock values.  It's the quickest, easiest and most cost effective way to go, and there are few complaints from listeners.

 

I suggest you pick your expert and go with their recommendation.  B)

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Appreciate the input Mookie.  Wake found a guy that on CL that's a few hours from him that has a mismatched pair of tweeters just like wake does.  Wake asked the guy if he would be willing to trade his K77 for the other guy's K77M and he said yes.  Looks like the guy repairs, refoams etc speakers as either a hobby / side business.  I told wake to give him a call.  I wouldn't have a problem myself mailing mine off to him for a trade.  But I would still talk with him on the phone....you can get a better feel of someone over the phone than you can via a text or email.

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2 minutes ago, Youthman said:

Wake asked the guy if he would be willing to trade his K77 for the other guy's K77M and he said yes. 

That sounds ideal.  It kind of works on you when you KNOW something isn't matched, even though you might not hear it.  A swap to get both guys a matched set of tweeters sounds like a win/win situation.

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Great info!

I would have to see some scematics.

I can't help but wonder how much modification it would take to convert AL to AA or just build my own AA.  I know Crites sells them built already.

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2 minutes ago, WakeJunkie said:

Great info!

I would have to see some scematics.

I can't help but wonder how much modification it would take to convert AL to AA or just build my own AA.  I know Crites sells them built already.

There is an entire thread on that.  I'll try to find it for you, but it is HARD to search for topics and not get a thousand hits.  The summation of that thread is that it is NOT economically to convert the AL to an AA because there are not enough components on the AL that can be used on the AA.

 

It is better to build an AA from scratch.

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4 minutes ago, WakeJunkie said:

Great info!

I would have to see some scematics.

I can't help but wonder how much modification it would take to convert AL to AA or just build my own AA.  I know Crites sells them built already.

There was a thread on here listing what was needed to convert from AL to AA. Do a search, it is there. Might be a fun project if you are looking for a project and have basic soldering skills. Might be easier (better) to start from scratch,

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3 minutes ago, MookieStl said:

Dave, you type faster than I do!

We are on the same page, my friend. 

 

I've got a little time, and it might be easier for me to find than Wake, and I don't mind doing it.

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I haven't found the conversion thread yet, but I had bookmarked some AA build threads.  See if this helps:

 

 

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14 minutes ago, MookieStl said:

There was a thread on here listing what was needed to convert from AL to AA. Do a search, it is there. Might be a fun project if you are looking for a project and have basic soldering skills. Might be easier (better) to start from scratch,

I can definitely solder.  I will do some digging.  Like you guys said. May be easier to start from scratch.  We will see.

Thanks.

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5 minutes ago, WakeJunkie said:

I can definitely solder.  I will do some digging.

If you can solder, piece of cake!

 

Make sure you catch my post ^^^ on Building the AA by Dean G.  I don't want our posts to "pass" each other and you miss it.

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23 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

 

 

This is awesome.  I have had no such luck searching.  And yes, I totally missed when you posted this so thanks for pointing it back out. It is so easy to miss stuff on a phone.

i am still interested in the conversion thread if anyone runs across it.  I have searched but no luck yet.

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1 hour ago, MookieStl said:

I found the CT125 slightly less bright but very clear...

 

I found the K77 to be more annoying. The CT125 does have a smoother sound, and I prefer it over the original Klipsch tweeters. If I were to replace the CT125s I would go ahead and move to the DE110 driver, although it is a little more expensive.

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44 minutes ago, WakeJunkie said:

 

i am still interested in the conversion thread if anyone runs across it.  I have searched but no luck yet.

 

Compare the schematics.  You need a 13uf cap,   autotransformer ( T2A)  and  tweeter coil  (245 uh)  and lose the extra parts.

 

          AL                                                           AA

Type AL.jpg                                          klipsch_aa.jpg

 

The pix can be see better in the crossover thread. 

 

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