ka7niq Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I just recently found a local pair of Black La Scala's, with the AL 3 crossovers in them. I found this crossover schematic online I have already ordered the 13uf midrange Capacitors, as well as all 3 of the 2uf ones for the stock tweeters. I may get Crites tweeters one day, do they work with the stock crossover ? I am also a big confused by the 68 uf caps for the woofers. I don't have the crossovers out of the speakers, but I was wondering IF Klipsch used Mylar or Electrolytics for these 68 uf capacitors. ? I was wondering if I could get away with some high quality non polar 68uf electrolytics, or if I am going to have to spring for Mylars or Poly's ? I went with the ERSE Poly Caps for the midrange and tweeters, and found them to work very well (when they break in) 68 uf Poly Caps are around 20 bucks EACH, and I need 4 Anyone have any experience with this mod on the La Scala's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Actually, $20 each is CHEAP!!! Gitcha some! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, JohnA said: Actually, $20 each is CHEAP!!! Gitcha some! I knew Brian Cheyney of VMPS Personally John. I had VMPS RM 40's, and my buddy still has his. You tune them with putty, same stuff as the rope caulk for horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Yes, the 68µF caps are Mylar. CBB60 70MFD 250V 60x120mm The capacitor takes heavy-edge metallized Al/Zn PP film or web-like fuse film as dielectric. Its components are sealed with flame-retardant epoxy resin. It has cylindric outline with high reliability and stability. https://www.amazon.com/CBB60-250VAC-Cylindrical-Motor-Capacitor/dp/B01E5W5UJ4/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1512087302&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=70uf+capacitor#feature-bullets-btf $13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 50 minutes ago, djk said: Yes, the 68µF caps are Mylar. CBB60 70MFD 250V 60x120mm The capacitor takes heavy-edge metallized Al/Zn PP film or web-like fuse film as dielectric. Its components are sealed with flame-retardant epoxy resin. It has cylindric outline with high reliability and stability. https://www.amazon.com/CBB60-250VAC-Cylindrical-Motor-Capacitor/dp/B01E5W5UJ4/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1512087302&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=70uf+capacitor#feature-bullets-btf $13 Thanks! Unfortunately, they only have one, and I need 4 of these, according to the schematic. My Brother is an AC Contractor here in Tampa, and I can buy on his account. I have never used these motor run caps before, but if you say it is cool, I am gonna check into them. I need to figure out a way to reduce the level of these La Scala midrange horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, ka7niq said: Unfortunately, they only have one, and I need 4 of these, according to the schematic. Please check with someone smarter than me, but are you sure you need to replace those 68u caps? The reason I say that is the newer more modern caps don't need to be replaced like those 70's era paper-in-oil. Unless you can establish by measuring or with your ears the 68u are out of spec, I say run them and see how they sound. +++ I had the Type AA XO's in both Khorns and LS and I loved the midrange. If you say it's too hot with the AL3, then it is. Your stuff, your living room, your ears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 hour ago, wvu80 said: Please check with someone smarter than me, but are you sure you need to replace those 68u caps? The reason I say that is the newer more modern caps don't need to be replaced like those 70's era paper-in-oil. Unless you can establish by measuring or with your ears the 68u are out of spec, I say run them and see how they sound. +++ I had the Type AA XO's in both Khorns and LS and I loved the midrange. If you say it's too hot with the AL3, then it is. Your stuff, your living room, your ears. If my speakers were made in 1990, , it means they are 27 years old. People will tell you, that the newer Mylar Caps do not wear out like Older paper in oil or Electrolytic caps did. True, they do not wear out, and are even self healing, as far as their value goes. However, what does increase is called ESR, and Bob Crites has measured it. I have sure heard it, when I have replaced old Mylar caps with new Poly Caps, or even with new Mylar. Besides, The cost is cheap to do what I plan to do, and like many on this forum, I am a bored old guy, so it will give me something to do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 hour ago, ka7niq said: Besides, The cost is cheap to do what I plan to do, and like many on this forum, I am a bored old guy, so it will give me something to do Well, as long as it keeps you off the streets and nobody gets set on fire...it's all good! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 10 hours ago, ka7niq said: I knew Brian Cheyney of VMPS Personally John. I had VMPS RM 40's, and my buddy still has his. You tune them with putty, same stuff as the rope caulk for horns. Kuol!! l love these subs! The only subs I haven't hated. Rumor is NASA used a pair and a pair of the B&K M200 amps I started with to simulate sonic booms. First 1, then 2 and finally 4 when my 2 sub system couldn't reproduce the bass sound in "The Revenge Of The Fallen" like the theater system could. No worries, now. I wish I knew what the original putty weight was. I've messed with mine and I'm not sure if I got it back correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 5 hours ago, JohnA said: Kuol!! l love these subs! The only subs I haven't hated. Rumor is NASA used a pair and a pair of the B&K M200 amps I started with to simulate sonic booms. First 1, then 2 and finally 4 when my 2 sub system couldn't reproduce the bass sound in "The Revenge Of The Fallen" like the theater system could. No worries, now. I wish I knew what the original putty weight was. I've messed with mine and I'm not sure if I got it back correctly. Brian of VMPS is dead, but several ex VMPS types still hang around on AudioCircles, I have heard. I bet you could use a CD with constant Bass Tones on it, and a SPL Meter to get it tuned. My kid just got his 2 new Outlaw Subs set up, and holy sheet. I have a Legacy Dual Impact subwoofer, haven't hooked it up yet. Just enjoying the La Scala's all by themselves. I am really liking these speakers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I just finished recapping a pair of AL-3's and I used the Erse 68uf Pulse-X at I think $19 and change each. The old electrolytics measured right at 120uf and bad ESR. I happened to have a set of AA's recapped at the same time and the difference between the two types in La Scalas is pretty significant. I been told and have read that the electrolytics are OK to use like this but after seeing how degraded the electrolytics were compared to the other capacitors which were OK (no not as good compared to new polys with ESR higher than I choose to use) still I decided to change them all out and future proof this crossover for decades to come. I always figure that design specs are there for a reason and the closer I can get the better and polypropolene beats electrolytic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, Dave A said: I just finished recapping a pair of AL-3's and I used the Erse 68uf Pulse-X at I think $19 and change each. The old electrolytics measured right at 120uf and bad ESR. I happened to have a set of AA's recapped at the same time and the difference between the two types in La Scalas is pretty significant. I been told and have read that the electrolytics are OK to use like this but after seeing how degraded the electrolytics were compared to the other capacitors which were OK (no not as good compared to new polys with ESR higher than I choose to use) still I decided to change them all out and future proof this crossover for decades to come. I always figure that design specs are there for a reason and the closer I can get the better and polypropolene beats electrolytic. I nearly always use ERSE Poly PULSE X Capacitors, and have all but the 4 68uf caps I need to begin re capping my AL 3 crossovers. ERSE makes excellent Non Polar Electrolytics, and since the original crossovers have electrolytics, I will probably use those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Probably will be fine. Companies have a habit of cutting corners where they can and if it does not hurt the product to much and meets their "minimum" specs. After measuring what I did with the old electrolytics I decided to do away with them since I could at $38.00 per board. Lots of great sounding La Scalas out there with these in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 Just now, Dave A said: Probably will be fine. Companies have a habit of cutting corners where they can and if it does not hurt the product to much and meets their "minimum" specs. After measuring what I did with the old electrolytics I decided to do away with them since I could at $38.00 per board. Lots of great sounding La Scalas out there with these in them. I like the LaScala's so much, now I want K Horns LOL, I have the LS in the room corners, sounding great The ERSE Electrolytics are better quality then the originals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 That's a slippery slope you are contemplating and you can ask John what your future might be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dave A said: That's a slippery slope you are contemplating and you can ask John what your future might be I am only gonna use the electrolytics on the woofers, the squawker and tweeter will be all poly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I was referring to the lust for more bigger better different etc not components. Components can be a slippery slope too if you start going for those fancy hand rolled capacitors with mink oil and beeswax between Platinum and Gold foil and pure oxygen free stabilized Silver leads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 On 11/30/2017 at 10:30 PM, ka7niq said: True, they do not wear out, and are even self healing ... Self healed from what? Wouldn't it be better if the capacitor didn't need to be healed to begin with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Dave A said: I was referring to the lust for more bigger better different etc not components. Components can be a slippery slope too if you start going for those fancy hand rolled capacitors with mink oil and beeswax between Platinum and Gold foil and pure oxygen free stabilized Silver leads. I know you're using hyperbole to make a point, but don't kid yourself -- a paper in oil or film and foil capacitor will always deliver better performance than a metalized type (both measurably and in sound quality). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 27 minutes ago, Dave A said: I was referring to the lust for more bigger better different etc not components. Components can be a slippery slope too if you start going for those fancy hand rolled capacitors with mink oil and beeswax between Platinum and Gold foil and pure oxygen free stabilized Silver leads. I have been a Ham for nearly 37 years, so not into hocus pocus. Honestly, I think a lot of the differences people hear in Caps comes from replacing bad old caps, with new Poly ones. I have re capped many vintage speakers, using decent quality bipolar electrolytic capacitors, with excellent results. My old B&W 801 speakers had some electrolytics in it, as did my old Rogers LS3/5 A These were world class speakers, so try not to drink too much Kool Aid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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