Klipsch warranty (Online no?)

[GhostTX]

I was at an audio shop checking out speakers when the discussion turned to online purchasing.

He said that Klipsch doesn't honor their warranty if you purchase a speaker(s) thru an online store.

Is this true? And if it is, why? I don't understand why not if its a new speaker.

[Mighty Favog]

The worst case scenario that has been brought up on the BB is that Klipsch has a lot less control over the origin of THAT speaker individually. It may have come from a fire sale that a licensed dealer had while going out of business and rather than sell tehm back to the mfgr. and forgive the debt, go ahead and see how much more they can get for them at the fire sale. After the sale could wind up at an unauthorized dealer being sold for a lot less. Of course, the question has come up that it shouldn't matter weather they were sold at a discount or not, Klipsch still got there money, right? Wrong, by this time the money promised to Klipsch by the authorized dealer may still have not been paid and is tied up in bankruptcy court for years. I'm not saying that all cases are like this. But it is one angle of why. I bought mine from Uncle's Stereo in New York for $1100 with shipping (msrp $1500) just over a month ago. If you read between the lines "Internet Sales" were forbidden. Not "Catch an add on the Internet and CALL them for a good deal". I have two so-called local dealers with in 70 miles of me and neither one of them would go any lower $1300/pair.

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Tom

KLF-20 Mahogany

Carver Receiver MXR-150

Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge

Carver TL-3100 CD

Yamaha K-1020 Cassette

dbx 1231 EQ

dbx 3bx Series Two (mothballed)

H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer

Monster Interlink 300 mk II

Original 12ga. Monster Cable

dbx 200 (mothballed)

dbx nx-40 (can't beleive I still own this thing! Mothballed)

Technics R&B Series SB-7 (mothballed)

Technics R&B Series SB-3 (mothballed)

Yamaha NS-W2 (mothballed)

SAE 5000A (mothballed but perfect shape)

[forresthump]

yes, klipsch posted their anti-internet policy on this board under a few posts under Home Theater & General to much disaclaim.

& the dealers certainly know it & are now it seems more prone to stick close to their 100%

mark-ups.

i think a 50% mark is good enough when all you do is walk in a place an order. so for 1/2 the msrp i won't need their damn warranty. i'll just fix it myself.

myself.

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go forth & hump the world

[T2K]

Yes I too read the big long free-for-all thread about Internet sales and wisely kept my mouth shut.But what I would like to know is, are there that many fires? I can't help but believe that Klipsch has to have some idea as to how their product ends up in the hands of "unauthorized dealers".Its not like we are talking about just a few items or there wouldn't be all the hoopla involved.I am not endorsing Internet purchasing or discouraging it either.I understand and support my local Dealer (too much here lately).I also am not such a tightwad that I will forego a warranty to save $50.I am just kinda tired of reading how an Internet seller

is somehow selling "B Goods" or "Gray" goods.

I'm sure that many of us know for a fact that Internet sellers do in fact sell NEW IN BOX items with no hint of water marks or soot marks on the packages.Where do they come from?Where do these guys get these products?Did Klipsch make any money from these products or were they stolen? I'm having a hard time understanding how such large quantities of product could get into the hands of Internet sellers with no way to detect same.Shoulda kept my mouth shut.

Keith

[forresthump]

the klipsch policy is/or soon will have the effect of turning dealers into a small town car dealership - the one's that still sell new cars pretty regularly at msrp. only thing is their dealers are no where to be found in small towns & f.e. there's only 1 in cleveland - so if know & want a klipsch you'r stuck - no inbrand competition - you pay msrp

100% markup or a little under if the salesman

wants to throw you a few crumbs.

let's face it klipsch is struggling between their good ole boy dealer system & modern consumer based distribution system.

& right now theyre siding with the dealers over the consumers while hoping these stodgy old dealerships develope their own internet systems - little or no competition for klipsch dealers except other brands.

consumers will naturally find a way around a monopoly especially with modern day technology. the current klipsch policy is doomed for failure.

[easyeyes]

I agree that the authorized dealers are charging way too much for their products. Klipsch products are excellent but the difference between an authorized dealer and an internet site is ludicrous. I called two authorized dealers inquiring about a KLF-C7 center speaker, both of them wanted over $600 excluding shipping and handling. I found the same speaker, brand new and in the original box for $445 including shipping. If we were talking a few dollars difference I would go to the authorized dealer. The dealers also know about this policy and they are raking us over the coals, not willing to come off the price any. Since I live in the UK, I was told to go to a dealer here. If I'm complaining about paying the US dealer price I'm definitely not going to pay a higher price in pounds and VAT. I think that we should take a wait and see attitude about this, I'm sure the policy will change.

[ColaBear]

I'd like to play devil's advocate here and see what people have to say. Based on what I read in the thread so far, people want to buy these great speakers for as little as possible, which is only human. Skip forward to the release of the new line this summer/fall and using a pair of KLF20s for this example. Just for argument, those who paid say $1,100 for a pair may be able to sell them for say $800 or $900. In the same vain, those that of us who paid $1,300 to $1,500 sound be able to sell our speakers for say $1,100 to $1,300. After all it would be unfair for those that paid much less to sell theirs for the same price than those that patronized a local dealer, correct? I'd like to hear others opinions and I will understand if BobG deletes me.

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*************************

KLF-30 mains

KLF-C7 center

KLF-30 surrounds

KSP-S6 rear center

KSW200 subwoofer

Denon AVR5800

Pioneer Elite DV-09

Pioneer Elite PD-F19

RCA DTC1000

Sony Playstation 2

Denon MD1000

Vidikron Epoch D-600

Vutec 100" 4:3 1.5 gain

[GhostTX]

I've found the policy (amazing what search does) on another thread.

All I've got to say is...what a bunch of crap.

I thought we lived in a capitalist society. If the dealers can't compete, tough. He needs to adapt or get out of business.

The local dealers in my area have 2 big problems going for them :

1) They're selection is nil. One place had just the Quints, the other Quints and Synergy 6. I can't listen, look, or buy another model series of Klipsch if I wanted to.

2) They charge well over 50% more than the sites online. That's an insane markup! I wouldn't mind pay an extra $50 in order to keep warranty...but $300...$400? C'mon.

TalktoKeith made a great point, how are the online stores getting the Klipschs'??? There must have been a serious warehouse heist somewhere. I truly find it hard to believe that the many, many, places online that sell Klipsch, got them from a fire sale or were stolen. What kind of hypocrisy is it that Klipsch says you shouldn't buy online, then sells stuff to online stores? Is there something we don't know? Does Klipsch really not want to offer warranties? Another audio store I visited said they stopped carrying Klipsch because the quality has gone south over recent years. Maybe there's some truth...

At any rate, a company that tries to make it difficult for me to purchase something and then for me to feel gouged when I do, does not encourage me to do business with them.

[Ray Garrison]

GhostTX,

Whatever else you may think about Klipsch's policy toward Internet sales (and they are far from the only company with similar policies), the Internet dealers are NOT buying directly from Klipsch. Gray market product is typically purchased, through the "back door", from authorized dealers who are in a cash crunch. If I have $50K worth of stock tied up in inventory, which I expect to move at the standard markup, but find myself cash constrained and facing a lease payment, I can "dump" that $50K at cost, or slightly above, to another dealer. I get needed cash, and am out at most the cost of the money that was tied up in inventory at whatever interest rate my bank is charging me. The other dealer (www.something.com) has $50K worth of speakers that he acquired at the same cost as, or slightly above, authorized dealer cost. The www.something.com dealer has no technician to pay, no sales commissions to pay, no storefront to support, no warranty service fees to float, yada yada yada, and so can sell that $50K worth of speakers at cost plus 20% and make a quick $10K profit. That's how unauthorized dealers survive.

Whether this should be a problem or not, from Klipsh's perspective, is a different kettle of fish.

Ray

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Music is art

Audio is engineering

[dougdrake]

'Tis a sticky wicket (whatever that is). As a consumer, I am totally in favor of Internet-based business models. As a businessman, I understand the plight of the local dealer, who to be authorized must maintain a sales staff, repair facilities, storefront, inventory, advertising, and all that stuff that most web-based businesses don't have to deal with. I can also understand Klipsch's challenge - how to maintain a reputable dealer force that will uphold the service and reputation of Klipsch, yet increase market share by selling through less expensive channels. It's a tough time for all concerned. Keep in mind, as you think about this, that the goal of Klipsch is NOT to alienate buyers. They are not the enemy. They, like us, are just trying to figure out a way to adapt to an economic model that didn't even exist 6 years ago.

To colabear's point, I believe that warranty benefits only apply to the original buyer, but I could be wrong. Thus, the secondary buyer gets no warranty benefit regardless of where the original buyer bought it. Therefore, the seller who first bought from an unauthorized dealer is offering the same product and benefits as the one who bought from an authorized dealer and their prices should be the same. However, it will most like be the lower of the two prices, not the higher, due to competitive forces.

Doug

[Tom Adams]

<awwww...what the heck Tom - jump into the fray>

dougdrake - many automobile manufacturers have transferable warantees. If you design a well engineered product, you should stand behind it. The aircraft my company produces gets touched by many mechanics not in our control over it's life. Our warranty on the airframe is 20 years. We stand behind our product. Not arguing with you, just making a point.

Ray Garrison - excellent example of how unauthorized dealers get their stuff. The solution sounds simple - Klipsch should require the DEALER to notify them when they sell off a large portion of inventory and to whom it was sold. Don't comply and they yank the dealer's license. I mean, it sounds like the real issue is between Klipsch and those dealers selling off their stuff. Solve that and the rest will take care of itself.

forresthump - you touched on something I'd like to expand on. Call me idealistic, but if I walk into my dealer and our conversation lasts just long enough for me to tell him I want to order a pair of K-horns, I expect to NOT have to pay MSRP. I did not tie him up from seeing other customers and therefore freed him up to make other sales. OTOH, if I'm really unsure about the three widescreen TV's he has and he spends 2 or 3 hours hooking up the sets and A/B'ing them for me, I'm not gonna beat the guy up on price.

One last thought...in all of this, I've yet to see a solution by Klipsch (which I greatly admire) for those poor souls who want a Klipsch product, yet live miles away from a dealer and want to purchase an "authorized" product. It seems unreasonable to me that a corporation would not attempt to seek a solution to meet the needs of such a customer. Would "bending the rules" be such a bad thing in the grand scheme of things??

Tom Adams

[dougdrake]

Hi Tom - No agrument taken I should have been more clear in my wording that I was referring to Klipsch only. I know that many manufacturers will permit warranty transfer. I'm just speculating that in this particular case, the warranty may not be transferable to a secondary purchaser. The key word is "speculate." I don't know if Klipsch transfers warranties.

[T2K]

WOW! Now I wish I'd kept my big mouth ( see left ) out of this! Who started (restarted)this thread anyway?

I would like to make my opinion perfectly clear.I think Klipsch is a class act.I love,

as we all do,my Klipsch speakers and think they are an excellant value.Throw in the great Tech Support that seems to always be available and you have a Company that is HIGHLY unusual in this day and time.

I would like to apologize to tblasing for using his EXAMPLE inapproapiately to express my opinion.tblasing,I'm authorizing you to use my grand theft example in a manner in which I did not mean it to be used.

As far as my local dealer is concerned I have spent $3000 there in the last couple months with a $395 C7 purchase from an internet "dealer".What chafs my butt is the fact that I COULD buy that C7 from an internet seller.Like holding candy in front of a kid.If I may borrow BobG's trench coat for a moment I'll bet I could find out via one serial number where speakers are coming from.Given the choice I bought the $395 C7 instead of the $600 Dealer C7.

BTW, my local dealer discounts speakers routinely.I understand the Authorized Internet Dealer problem perfectly well.Lets say Klipsch authorized five dealers in this country to sell Klipsch discounted over the Internet.Rather than buy locally I personally

would order over the Internet at the 35%-50% discount,as per my C7,and leave my good buddy Todd high and dry.We would not be buddies anymore.Shortly I would have the same

problem GhostTX has because Todd would be standing in the unemployment line wearing his Klipsch t-shirt.Then I would gripe because I could not hear speakers locally before buying, and would go and buy Bloze.

I don't what the answer is.I do know that I need the option of HEARING speakers before buying them and I cannot say for certain that I would pay MSRP for Klipsch speakers at

my local dealer.I will and have paid MSRP less 35%-50% with no warranty(I like living on the edge).Just wish boa12 would win that lottery thig-a-ma-jig and open a FULLY stocked super Klipsch-o-Rama and dicount heavily.

Keith

Oh yeah,Doug.Found one of those sticky wickets stuck to the bottom of my shoe this morning.Think it came out of that non-authorized dealer box.LOOK OUT!

This message has been edited by talktoKeith on 09-11-2001 at 10:19 AM

[Mighty Favog]

Keith,

No offense taken. My original example was with the idea of a business that is going out of business (I used to work for an audio store for thirteen years that did just that). Although the literal translation of a "fire sale" does make sense as well. Obviously Ray's scenario I'm sure is more commonly practiced than my "worst case".

As far as the Heritage line being carried by local dealers, how about some sort of consignment program. If the speakers have to go back to Klipsch because of some sort of natural disaster or business financial trouble and as long as they are not abused and not "blown-up" from people "testing" them (only to buy some for their own and not play them nearly that loud) then only a small deposit could be made on that item from the authorized dealer to Klipsch. To go along with that Klipsch and the authorized dealer would have to have closely recorded lists of the serial numbers--a monthly inventory of those numbers sent to Klipsch to be sure large volume sales don't go to unauthorized dealers perhaps. In exchange couldn't Klipsch make some sort of 2-day delivery to the dealer OR EVEN to the customers home(drop-shipped) for sold units and be more liberal on the price constraints? After all, I assume they have to be trucked in to the dealer anyway so why not to the customer's home. Call me stupid but with a little polishing it might work.

Tom

[boa12]

hey, how'd i get druged into this?

Boa's Klipsch Hyper Clearing House? no wait,

klipsch policy states I'd have to sell only within my exclusive area & deliver w/ my own trucks - no go there unless y'all move here to the center of the universe.

klipschdirect is only a matter of time. maybe klipsch really does tolerate the internet dealers while giving the dealers their policy for comfort. oops, just gave it

away

so how's this brandnamesz work?

[Bill_L]

So I take it that the Klipsch's I bought from Ubid are not covered under warranty? How does Ubid get ahold of so many speakers? A few days ago they had over 500 Quintets for auction

[T2K]

Bill_L, were there any water stains on the

boxes?How about fingerprints in the

soot stains.BobG is getting the

trench coat on now.

Keith

[Bill_L]

no, there were no water stains or soot anywhere to be found

How can Ubid.com have access to so may speakers of Klipsch doesn't authorize it?

[edster00]

uBid's listings state that the Klipsch warranty does apply...

"Warranty

Five years through Klipsch - warranty service only"

Klipsch must have made a boatload of Quintets to be dumping them at Ubid. They have been averaging 150+ pairs a day since December at least

[Quenten]

Good posting guys

Really surprized Klipsch hasn't come forth with a polocy--time is money & time has come & gone!

I bet the internet sales thing doesn't even really apply to the masses. We love music & are generally knowledeable about sales/prices and do enough business (for a long enough time) that we will/are willing to shop for a bargin. Most people will not. You know the attitude today--want it now! As an example: since I bought my system, three of my friends have bought Klipsch systems. I told them about internet prices & NONE of them opted to go that route!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are mutually exclusive customers and a minority.

Klipsch can have its cake & eat it too with internet sales.

Dealers will not have to drop their prices due to internet discounts.