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Yoshi2004

R-820f ...more power needed?

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I recently could not resist the discounts on the new reference line on sale Black Friday. Ended up purchasing the full lineup (2) R-820F, (1) R-34C, (1 Pair) R-41SA, (1 Pair) R-51M, (1) R-120SW. 

I have them powered with a denon avr-x2200w. 

I find myself a little underwhelmed with the towers low end response.

Could I just be underpowering them with my avr, or do they just not pack the punch i was hoping for?

I wouldnt be opposed to an external amplifier setup and purchasing a new avr to get the most out of them. Any thoughts?

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How are they set up in your receiver?  Large, small, crossover level, etc.  Have you run the Denon's auto speaker setup?

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I have not setup the subwoofer yet because I wanted to experience the towers on their own first. I have ran audyssey and they were then set to full range. They are connected to the receiver with 16 gauge wire. I have all 7 channels in use with the atmos. When listening to music in stereo which to my understanding should be sending more power to those two channels it still seems to be lacking in the bass. Could I just be expecting too much from them? I just assumed with 2 8" woofers it would have some decent bass. 

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The r-34c is crystal clear with dialogue, and maintains that clarity even at higher listening levels. I find myself never satisfied since I started building my home theater set up. I Know eventually I will upgrade it to a little larger center channel, but for my current room set up I have absolutely no complaints at the price point.

It was an impulse buy while I was checking out at best Buy, I noticed an open box ten feet away for $279, haggled the salesman down to $224 on it. (word to the wise....open box is always open to negotiations at Best Buy )

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You have not even really set it all up or made the always necessary adjustments to fix room problems. This takes a little time adjusting everything, almost every speaker made is better with a sub depending on the music you like, try setting it all up, listen and make adjustments.

 

How can you be satisfied if you never bothered to set it up completely? 

13 hours ago, Yoshi2004 said:

Could I just be underpowering them with my avr, or do they just not pack the punch i was hoping for?

Could be underpowering them but remember your running them with an AVR, they have many settings, are they all set to make the speakers sound best without subs or many of the other settings? If not set for what your doing an AVR can make great speakers sound underwhelming. 

 

All I'm saying is this is not plug and play, like Wuzzer asked and you never answered, these kinds of things make huge differences. 

 

Or just start replacing things maby not needed, it's good for the economy.   :wacko:  Sorry, but you asked for it, many here really know what they're talking about and just want to help, let them.

 

Welcome................. slow down before spending any more......................can't believe I said that. :blush:

Everyone here loves to spend other peoples money but making the best of what you have is just as important to everyone. 

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Ir sounds like a problem with setup or the room.  If you are also going to use them for HT, setup the sub and see what you think.  Keep asking question and other will help you get things right.

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I have not set up the subwoofer yet, because I am currently in an appartment for another couple months and dont want to piss off the neighbors. I know the horn towers are very efficient and can run with less the 150 watt continuous power rating. I have them set to large speakers wtih full range in settings, have ran the audyssey. Seating position is about ten feet away

speakers.jpg

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Two things to try;

1 Run the R820s as they are now located but by themselves without the rest of your HT speakers or the Audyssey.

2 Move the R820s well out of the corners and play them without using the Audyssey - play them full range and uncorrected.

If either of these things changes the sound for the better, you've got a starting point. If not you can cross an easy thing off the list.

 

My thought on your set up is that you have rear ported speakers that can sound boomy when too close to boundaries, pushed into corners. The correction software may decrease the bass to compensate for the added and muffled bass from the corner location. I have a pair of RP280s that I had to move out from the rear and side walls about 3ft each way (to the front of the baffle) to get the bass to sound relatively flat. When they were closer to the walls the bass was of the one note type and the closer to the walls they were, the boomier they got. They sound pretty good now.

Edited by zelgall
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2 hours ago, zelgall said:

Two things to try;

1 Run the R820s as they are now located but by themselves without the rest of your HT speakers or the Audyssey.

2 Move the R820s well out of the corners and play them without using the Audyssey - play them full range and uncorrected.

If either of these things changes the sound for the better, you've got a starting point. If not you can cross an easy thing off the list.

Just being direct kind of a noob, so when you say by themselves. Do you mean put it in stereo mode or disable all of the other speakers in the settings?

 

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Yes and run them without Audyssey. It's EQ and can mask other issues.

 

I always try to eliminate the easy and free stuff first.

The other thing to check is that all of the speakers are wired in phase, ie plus terminal at the amp to plus at the speaker. It's a small thing but it will affect imaging and bass reproduction.

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I put the receiver back to factory settings, disabled all channels except for towers and ran in stereo mode. They definitely have some more bass, and sound soo much better in stereo without the audyssey "corrections" Now the difficult part of fine tuning the entire set up together. 

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  • When setting up Audyssey, did you use all 8 microphone positions?  You should!  You have a choice of a tight pattern if you are the only listener, or a somewhat broader pattern if 2 or 3 of you will be listening.
  • Do any room treatment first.
  • Audyssey can do a marvelous job of room correction if you take the time to set it up correctly. 
  • > 90% of the people on the "official" AVS Audyssey forum I and II end up boosting their subwoofer a few dB AFTER running Audyssey, because 1) Audyssey is rather conservative with the bass 2) People get used to the bass peaks in their room, and miss them when Audyssey (rightly) takes them away.  This is compensated for by boosting the sub a bit.  Audyssey gives you a nice smooth curve to play with.  It's better to turn up a smooth curve than a kinky one, unless you like kinky.  Current Best Practice is to boost the sub using the knob on the sub itself because too many AVRs have line drivers on the sub trims that will clip you run a movie with a lot of LFE.  Keep the sub trim on the AVR below -3.5, of even at -5 or below if you play anywhere near reference level.
  • When you start using the sub again, run Audyssey again, and set the main speakers for "Small."  This will improve the headroom and cleanness of the towers.  If you insist on running the mains "Large," you will have to check your manual, because unless you take extra steps, "Large" means "send nothing to the sub."  If your speakers will permit (and I'm confident they will) cross over at 80 Hz.  That is the THX recommended Xover for capable speakers.  That way, the initial, leading edge of bass drum or timpani beats -- the "smack" of beater against leather-- will come through your towers (and center), and the deeper underpinning will come through your sub, which should be more capable in the bass.  Another way of thinking of it is if there is a Baoom!, Ba will come through the towers and Ooom through the sub.  The infernal bass machine that is in so many movies will be relegated to the sub.
  • Take an hour out and read this:"Audyssey FAQ Linked Here

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last night i diabled all of my speakers except for Front L/R channel, disabled the audyssey settings, and ran them full range. They definitely got a dramatic boost in performance for stereo set up. night and day difference. I also moved my entertainment center to the right more and pulled the tower out from the wall more and slightly in front of the entertainment center. Much better bass response and imaging. Thanks for the tips zelgall.

 

I then proceeded to turn all channels back on and definitely need to go back in and adjust the settings a little for all channels. Even after turning all channels on, there was a lot more bass response from the towers without audyssey EQ adjusting everything. Ill try running audyssey again with the speakers pulled up more now and see what I think

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Lol I’m the 2019 newbie and those same speakers gave me the same impression. My receiver WAS underpowered and I have exchanged it for a receiver that can drive all my speakers. If you are still using this forum I would like to know how things eventually worked out

Weblee

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