Erik Mandaville Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Hey, I've gotten some suggestions from fellow La Scala/Cornwall user/owners concerning an upgrade of the crossover. The pair of La Scalas I got a week ago are vintage 1989 units, and I am interested in what the change would be with the ALK network. What's different? Crossover point, slope, etc.? Might someone be willing to share his/her thoughts on perceived differences from the stock and ALK versions? That would be most appreciated! Erik P.S. someone told me the bass driver is sealed and can't be removed or screws tightened, etc. Can't one simply take off the bottom panel to get inside to make sure its mounting screws are still snug after all these years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 There is A LOT of differing views here. Do a search in the 2 Channel and Updating Speakers archives for info regarding Type AA and A and ALK crossovers. My opinion is you would definitely like to rebuild your unit. Did you get the links to the schematic and downloads of part for the ALK crossover? I posted it in one of your threads. There has been ENDLESS discussion on the topics as of late. Guy Landau just posted his Type A rebuild with pic/schematic as well. It was in the Jazman thread about oil crossovers for his Belle. Did you see it? Look to rebuilding them either using the ALK guide/schematic or some version of the even more simple Type A. A few are selling the original Type AA OIL crossovers which need to have the diodes disconnected for better treble performance. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 The LaScala bass bin is NOT supposed to be PERMANENTLY sealed...unless some previous owner glued the bottom panel onto it...just remove the screws in the bottom panel, and gently pry it off...it sometimes sticks a bit, due to the weather-stripping gasket down there...the woofer is mounted to the motorboard with MACHINE SCREWS into T-NUTS...should be 10-24 ones!! DO NOT OVETIGHTEN these...just ensure they are good and snug...it is a good idea to use a small flat washer and a lock washer when attaching the woofer, but the factory just uses the screws. More likely that you have loose connector than a loose woofer...the connector to the top of the doghouse, where the wire goes to the woofer on the motorboard. When replacing the bottom panel, be sure to note which side went where and replace it exactly the same...and also be careful to allow the mounting woodscrews to "follow" their old threads they made into the wood...so as not to strip out the wood there...and...again...do NOT overtighten them!! It is a good idea to apply pressure to that panel with one hand, as you tighten the screws with the other...that way you stand less of a chance of stripping out the wood there, since the screws won't have to be applying the pressure to re-seal the gasket material!! Know what I mean?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 20, 2002 Author Share Posted October 20, 2002 Thanks you guys! KH: I absolutely got the URL you sent and saved it in an audio file. Those networks look well made, though I didn't happen to stumble on the schematic. That would be my preferred choice, though...I'll have another look here, shortly. I expect there would by many varying views on this aspect of the speaker, since perceived sound is subjective at best. You've been helpful with this -- thanks for that! Mr.Builder : I appreciate your taking the time to explain some of the ins and outs of the cabinetry -- you obviously are well-versed in La Scala-ism! I figured there had to be a way to get at the driver, and I seriously doubt if the former owner glued the bottom panel on. I'll get that neoprene installed this afternoon and see how things sound. A good Sunday to you both! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Erik - Andy (HDBR) actually BUILT a good many of the Klipsch Heritage series since he worked at Klipsch! He is a VERY valuable resource when it comes to the construction of these speakers. Hell, I think he might have built my Cornwalls (still have to double check with him to see dates/sig). Here is the link to the Schematic and parts list for ALK - You have to download the files: ALK Crossover Schematic and Parts List http://www.alkeng.com/dload/xover.zip See pic of his unit above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Kelly.. Thanks....BTW...the next time you remove the backs of your Cornwalls...check in the corners where the rear glue blocks meet...see if that caulk there is getting dry and brittle. If it is, then remove it and replace it with some plain old white latex caulk(what we used at the plant), making sure you have a nice smooth fill at the joint there...Cornwalls aren't airtight, and that caulk can get "old" over time...and it has been a LONG time for yours!! Just give it a quick check sometime...I am kinda interested in how well that caulk has held up over the last quarter century or so!! Be sure to give the NEW caulk time to "set-up" before replacing the backs...if you have to replace the caulk, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Erik, Take it from someone who has the AL Networks (you probably have the same), the ALK simply blows them away. Of the 103 people who own ALK networks, I believe only one person wasn't happy with them. There is one other person (happens to be a board member) who made his own networks using AL's schematic (with much cheaper parts) and wasn't happy either. That's 2 cases out of 104 that didn't like them. If you ask me, that's a pretty good track record. All the other naysayers are people going off of hearsay. They haven't heard 'em themselves but because they don't have oil in film caps (or whatever), they're not sure if they are gonna sound OK. Trust me when I tell you this... they will totally change the sound of your La Scala's! And it will be for the better! They will be more clear and open sounding, with smoother mids and a beefier bottom-end, as well as a more balanced sound. The ALK's also allow you to bi-wire, as well as change the tap settings to reduce the db's on the squawker horn. Since you are a DIYer, the parts for Al's networks can be had for $220 I believe (the parts list and resources are on his website). Al sells them for $500 but it's around $540 delivered. Like mobile mentioned, the type A that Guy uses can be done for a lot less. I have also heard good things about this network but have not heard it personally. I have compared the AA, AL, ALK and AK-3, and I can tell you from experience the ALK blows them all away (except the AK-3 on the newer Klipschorns). It's your money but I would at least try and build the cheaper type A networks and let your ears decide. All I know is I am happy with my ALK's... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOZ Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 Mike, I have AL's in my La Scalas, what the difference with the ALK's. Just wondering... Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 ---------------- On 10/20/2002 1:43:24 PM Mike Lindsey wrote: Trust me when I tell you this... they will totally change the sound of your La Scala's! And it will be for the better! They will be more clear and open sounding, with smoother mids and a beefier bottom-end, as well as a more balanced sound. The ALK's also allow you to bi-wire, as well as change the tap settings to reduce the db's on the squawker horn. Mike ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Sean & Erik, I would try to build the type A first and if you won't like them(no such chance),you can use the inductors and 2mf capacitors for the ALK. I can sell you my ALK's for 275$+shipping.You will need 2pc of 2.2mf capacitors(1 for each crossover)in order to get them going since I've used the capacitors for my type A. Regards, Guy BTW, Rune also built the type A and was amazed by the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 21, 2002 Author Share Posted October 21, 2002 Thanks all of you for your thoughts on the crossover upgrade. This is something I'm planning on, but sort of have to recover a little bit first $$$$-wise. In the meantime, I can maybe begin to compile some of the parts for a homebuilt version, if that's what I decide to do. We spent our first weekend listening to the La Scalas early into the morning, and they were great -- please excuse me if I don't launch into the many adjectives often used to describe the sound -- which was simply larger than life, and with a bass presence the Lowthers aren't capable of producing (and they don't need to be since I listen mostly to music not heavily laden with bass). I have since completely re-done my workroom, and transformed it into a 'vinyl-only' system. The Moondogs will stay with the Lowthers for now in that new room, which is loaded very, very well by the Lowthers in the rear-loaded horns. With four dogs chasing each other around, the TT would sometimes get a good 'Thwak' with a tail or two, and it just wasn't a good situation. As for the crossover, I know from experience that high quality coils can make an appreciable difference in a system, and the parts used on the ALK networks look to be first-rate. There is probably more going on with those than simply parts selection, though...but they do look well put-together at a reasonable price. Thanks Kh for sending along that schematic URL -- you've been helpful with this to say the least. This has been a great forum, very helpful and encouraging which isn't always the case! Thanks again for your responses -- have a good week, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 21, 2002 Author Share Posted October 21, 2002 Well, I've printed all info., schematic, parts list, etc., for the ALK networks (I owe you one, kh!). Looks to be a pretty straightforward design, really. For now, Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Erik, I have a set of DIY La Scala's and both the factory AA's and Al K's on hand. Even to my non-audiophile ears the difference is clearly audible. I built mine with Al's lower-cost option, it was more of a PITA than anything else, if I had it to do over I would use the Hovlands. My advice: don't be in a hurry if you're buying from Solen in Canada. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Erik, to be honest, I would do what Guy Landau suggested. I, like you, happen to believe simple is better a lot of the time, and in this instance, the simple TYPE A crossover would be cheaper and perhaps sound better than the Type AA version. I might try this one first. Paul Klipsch actually seemed to favor the Type A from what I have read. Here is a pic and the schematic. Guy's pic is not that great but you get the idea. It is a very simple design. I included a pic of the schematic. See the link BELOW the pic for a FULL SIZE version for you to download. FULL SIZE Schematic: http://www.progressive-engineering.com/klipsch/type_a_schematic.gif kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Erik, If you do order the parts from Solen-try to order the Hepta-Litz inductors since they are better than the solid core. For the 2mf capacitors-try to order the film and foil capacitors and not the metalized polypropylene for same reason. Once more,I have to add that when comparing the type A to the ALK,the type A was fuller,more 3 dimentional sounding with better midrange information.I could even listen to music at much lower levels and with such ease that it really surprised me.I coclude that the simplicity of the type A design,lets all the music information flow out of the speakers much easier than with the ALK's(which needed much more volume in order to sound good). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 22, 2002 Author Share Posted October 22, 2002 Great information -- thanks to all who have helped offer thoughts on this subject. I think it prudent, both financially and timewise, if I have a try with the type A network as a few have suggested -- with an absolute option open for the ALK later on, if desired (or if I just want to try it -- knowing me, I will). I have a question: Can anyone inform me about a part# and source of the transformer shown in the schematic Mobile H. included with his last post? What a talent to be able to provide great pictures like this -- I need to learn at least a little bit of that. My wife is a computer pro, but not so me! The type A network I CAN afford right now! Where can I get the transformer needed to complete the project? Thanks again! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Eric, You can use the old T2A transformers from your Lascala's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 my mistake, took a closer look at the schematic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Erik, About the transformer, you can use the T2A you have or the transformer I use which is a direct replacement. The terminal numbers are the same as on the T2A. Contact Mark Cooper at Universal Transformer Co. Phone: 972 784-7700. The part number is 3619 and costs $22.50 each. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Just curious. IS the replacement transformer of Better quality than the original? How do the transformers from the early days stack up against the modern jobs in this application? Has anyone on here done any experimenting with higher quality transformers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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