Klipsch KF-20

[moray james]

17 hours ago, wnabphil78@gmail said:

Will do thank you! 

the black shiny poly tweeter diaphragms which were used in most KLF speakers (some early KLF20 and KLF30 were factory loaded with phenolic diaphragms which are fine and will sound excellent for many many decades) I think they (poly diaphragms) are imo the worst sounding diaphragms Klipsch has ever used  in a product.

The caps in the in a KLF20/30 are not the PIO (paper in oil motor run caps used in old Heritage and/or plastic (usually polypropylene in oil) in the newer versions) series which will also last for very many decades and sound fine. The woofer section of a KLF20/30 use cheap electrolytic capacitors which can be easily and inexpensively be replaced and upgraded by modest price modern electrolytic capacitors for better sound and the mid/hi section of the network they use inexpensive polyester caps. I happen to be a big fan of top quality polyester caps by the way) but the plastic caps used in these decades ago while they will not degrade with time are not near the quality available today. Better quality caps is where the improvement to performance comes from. Dayton sell a series of small value film and foil plastic caps which are inexpensive and provide excellent sound quality in the mid and tweeter sections of the networks. These new parts are well worth your time effort and cost to replace. You don't need to take out a bank loan to purchase ultra expensive boutique capacitors to improve dramatically the sound quality of your KLF speakers. I hope this helps.

[wnabphil78@gmail]

So got them today, LOUD! When I push them they seem to sound meh, looks like maybe new caps and teeter upgrade? I would assume that’s the issue? 

[wnabphil78@gmail]

10 hours ago, moray james said:

the black shiny poly tweeter diaphragms which were used in most KLF speakers (some early KLF20 and KLF30 were factory loaded with phenolic diaphragms as fine for many many decades) are imo the worst sounding diaphragms Klipsch has ever used  in a product. The caps in the in a KLF20.30 are not the PIO (paper in oil motor run caps used in old Heritage and plastic usually polypropylene in oil in the newer versions) series which will also last for very many decades and sound fine. The woofer section of a KLF20/30 use cheap electrolytic capacitors which can be easily and inexpensively be replaced and upgraded by modest price modern electrolytic capacitors for better sound and the mid/hi section of the network use inexpensive polyester caps. I happen to be a big fan of top quality polyester caps by the way) but the plastic caps used in these decades ago while they will not degrade with time are not near the quality available today. Better quality caps is where the improvement to performance comes from. Dayton sell a series of small value film and foil plastic caps which are inexpensive and provide excellent sound quality in the mid and tweeter sections of the networks. These new parts are well worth your time effort and cost to replace. You don't need to take out a bank loan to purchase ultra expensive boutique capacitors to improve dramatically the sound quality of your KLF speakers. I hope this helps.

Yes it does, I assume they need caps and tweeters, they sound very tinny and when loud kind of off ? 

[billybob]

Listen for Abit and do a search of forum on the ti diaprams. Some prefer the phenolics. Your ears will help you decide over some time. Same for the XOs... Congrats!

BTW, experiment with distance from rear to walls...

[pzannucci]

7 hours ago, billybob said:

Listen for Abit and do a search of forum on the ti diaprams. Some prefer the phenolics. Your ears will help you decide over some time. Same for the XOs... Congrats!

BTW, experiment with distance from rear to walls...

Excellent info.  Experiment with distance from the wall.  Typically a little less than 1-3 feet for rear ports.

9 hours ago, wnabphil78@gmail said:

So got them today, LOUD! When I push them they seem to sound meh, looks like maybe new caps and teeter upgrade? I would assume that’s the issue? 

What does meh mean?  Based on a little better description, we might be able to better help understand a fix :-).  Secondly, they are not the easiest speakers to drive and make sure if you are using a receiver, disable the calibration to start.  The better feeding, particularly on the bass (high power/high current), the better they will sound.  

[wnabphil78@gmail]

26 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

Excellent info.  Experiment with distance from the wall.  Typically a little less than 1-3 feet for rear ports.

What does meh mean?  Based on a little better description, we might be able to better help understand a fix :-).  Secondly, they are not the easiest speakers to drive and make sure if you are using a receiver, disable the calibration to start.  The better feeding, particularly on the bass (high power/high current), the better they will sound.  

They sounded distorted a bit when at high volumes and the highs were ear piercing, I’m using a Luxman r -115 for the amp. Don’t think it has a calibration 🤷‍♂️

[wnabphil78@gmail]

20 hours ago, moray james said:

the black shiny poly tweeter diaphragms which were used in most KLF speakers (some early KLF20 and KLF30 were factory loaded with phenolic diaphragms which are fine and will sound excellent for many many decades) I think they (poly diaphragms) are imo the worst sounding diaphragms Klipsch has ever used  in a product.

The caps in the in a KLF20/30 are not the PIO (paper in oil motor run caps used in old Heritage and/or plastic (usually polypropylene in oil) in the newer versions) series which will also last for very many decades and sound fine. The woofer section of a KLF20/30 use cheap electrolytic capacitors which can be easily and inexpensively be replaced and upgraded by modest price modern electrolytic capacitors for better sound and the mid/hi section of the network they use inexpensive polyester caps. I happen to be a big fan of top quality polyester caps by the way) but the plastic caps used in these decades ago while they will not degrade with time are not near the quality available today. Better quality caps is where the improvement to performance comes from. Dayton sell a series of small value film and foil plastic caps which are inexpensive and provide excellent sound quality in the mid and tweeter sections of the networks. These new parts are well worth your time effort and cost to replace. You don't need to take out a bank loan to purchase ultra expensive boutique capacitors to improve dramatically the sound quality of your KLF speakers. I hope this helps.

Thank you for the info, I need to find someone local to me to be able to to the upgrades, I have no idea what I’m doing LOL 

[moray james]

3 hours ago, wnabphil78@gmail said:

Thank you for the info, I need to find someone local to me to be able to to the upgrades, I have no idea what I’m doing LOL 

Good luck finding some local assistance. Have you checked your baffles for adhesive issues yet? All you need to do is to remove both woofers and then get inside with a rubber mallet and whack hard around the outside edge of the baffle all the way around the cabinet they (the baffle) should be solid and sound no movement or clacking sounds. Only the first run of KLF had a defective adhesive (and only the adhesive used on the baffles, the rest of the cabinet uses a different adhesive) Klipsch caught the problem and had the adhesive manufacturer correct the problem.

If you find adhesiveissues with even one baffle I strongly recommend that you remove all four baffles remove the old adhesive  along with the black melamine veneer and re assemble using standard whit wood glue wood to wood joint which will out live the wood in the cabinets.

[wnabphil78@gmail]

7 minutes ago, moray james said:

Good luck finding some local assistance. Have you checked your baffles for adhesive issues yet? All you need to do is to remove both woofers and then get inside with a rubber mallet and whack hard around the outside edge of the baffle all the way around the cabinet they (the baffle) should be solid and sound no movement or clacking sounds. Only the first run of KLF had a defective adhesive (and only the adhesive used on the baffles, the rest of the cabinet uses a different adhesive) Klipsch caught the problem and had the adhesive manufacturer correct the problem.

If you find adhesiveissues with even one baffle I strongly recommend that you remove all four baffles remove the old adhesive  along with the black melamine veneer and re assemble using standard whit wood glue wood to wood joint which will out live the wood in the cabinets.

Thank you, looks like the previous owner already glued the cabinets so it’s all good, he did however apply a wood veneer to the black speakers which sucks. 

[moray james]

2 minutes ago, wnabphil78@gmail said:

Thank you, looks like the previous owner already glued the cabinets so it’s all good, he did however apply a wood veneer to the black speakers which sucks. 

most people are lazy. Check your baffles now  you can take the opportunity to rotate your woofers 180 degrees and to fill the screw holes with some tooth picks and white glue as the mdf compresses and the screws get loose over time. It's a bad idea to trust to someone else. Now you know. It's up to you.

[wnabphil78@gmail]

1 minute ago, moray james said:

most people are lazy. Check your baffles now  you can take the opportunity to rotate your woofers 180 degrees and to fill the screw holes with some tooth picks and white glue as the mdf compresses and the screws get loose over time. It's a bad idea to trust to someone else. Now you know. It's up to you.

Ok thanks I will do so 

[moray james]

13 hours ago, wnabphil78@gmail said:

So got them today, LOUD! When I push them they seem to sound meh, looks like maybe new caps and teeter upgrade? I would assume that’s the issue? 

well caps and ti tweeter diaphragms are a very good idea (I ran titanium mid diaphragms by Klipsch in mine now I have new ti comp drivers and run as a two way). I would suspect air leakage as your problem and the baffles are the cause of that. People think that reflex cabinets don't care about air leaks but it is a problem so is loss of energy if a baffle is flapping. Woofer dust caps could also be a culprit but usually you hear a klacking sounds with loose dust caps like these hard plastic ones on the KLF series.

[wnabphil78@gmail]

3 minutes ago, moray james said:

well caps and ti tweeter diaphragms are a very good idea (I ran titanium mid diaphragms by Klipsch in mine now I have new ti comp drivers and run as a two way). I would suspect air leakage as your problem and the baffles are the cause of that. People think that reflex cabinets don't care about air leaks but it is a problem so is loss of energy if a baffle is flapping. Woofer dust caps could also be a culprit but usually you hear a klacking sounds with loose dust caps like these hard plastic ones on the KLF series.

Thank you!! I appreciate the input 

[moray james]

if you have adhesive issues take the opportunity to remove all four baffles and install internal brace work. 3/4" ply is excellent brace material cut it 2" wide mount it on the 3/4" edge pre seal the plywood edge to be bonded with white glue once or twice to make sure you have a good edge as the adhesive will soak into the ply. Horizontal braces below and above each woofer help a lot and a vertical brace on each side I install two verticals on the back one on each side of the terminal cut and a central brace on the top front to back (make sure the tweeter can clear the brace on install) leave the bottom of the cabinet alone you may need that space down the road. Tie the side braces together with a stringer (same material as the braces)and tie the front horizontal braces to the rear braces. On the baffles where the braces are mounted use a dremil tool to sand off the thin black melamine so you can glue to the wood beneath, It is the melamine's no stick qualities which have caused all the problems to begin with.Remove the melamine veneer from the baffle outer edge so your install will all be wood to wood. Make sure to remove all of the original hot melt adhesive on the baffles. This work will pay off in tighter bass with  more  impact. That should get you going.

[wnabphil78@gmail]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:28 AM, moray james said:

if you have adhesive issues take the opportunity to remove all four baffles and install internal brace work. 3/4" ply is excellent brace material cut it 2" wide mount it on the 3/4" edge pre seal the plywood edge to be bonded with white glue once or twice to make sure you have a good edge as the adhesive will soak into the ply. Horizontal braces below and above each woofer help a lot and a vertical brace on each side I install two verticals on the back one on each side of the terminal cut and a central brace on the top front to back (make sure the tweeter can clear the brace on install) leave the bottom of the cabinet alone you may need that space down the road. Tie the side braces together with a stringer (same material as the braces)and tie the front horizontal braces to the rear braces. On the baffles where the braces are mounted use a dremil tool to sand off the thin black melamine so you can glue to the wood beneath, It is the melamine's no stick qualities which have caused all the problems to begin with.Remove the melamine veneer from the baffle outer edge so your install will all be wood to wood. Make sure to remove all of the original hot melt adhesive on the baffles. This work will pay off in tighter bass with  more  impact. That should get you going.

Wow thank you for the advice. I am not a handy person at all! I am looing into getting them professionally refinished. The wood veneer is bubbling and looks like crap.

[glens]

There are different adhesion methods used, so that's a factor.  I'd warm things up with a heat gun and see if a putty knife could get behind it and do some useful damage.  If the veneer looks okay apart from the bubbles I'd spend a few minutes trying to get them stuck back down.  Again, I'd first try heat only this time followed by pressure.  Another option is to slit the bubble with a razor blade and work some glue in behind it.  Might get lucky and not have to sand or touch up finish after.