mobile homeless Posted November 13, 2002 Author Share Posted November 13, 2002 GREAT something good is coming from this. IT almost appears as if this is actually a NEW table while the other was used. Shouldnt say this for sure...but it seems a bit circumspect. Description of Azimuth is right on. It's a total pain to get right though. You just pray it is ALREADY RIGHT! BTW, as I stated before, I would think the MAT is not as much an impact on acrylic platters. AS another test, try clamping the record down WITH NO MAT. Also, another reason why the mat sticks more on yours is the actual USE of the CLAMP which compresses the record into the mat. With the Linn and others, there is no clamp. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 A purely visual adjustment of azimuth doesn't cut it. I have owned more that one cartridge that reached it's optimal performance level only when adjusted to a point where it APPEARED crooked as hell. Always drove me crazy--the neat-nik in me wanted it to appear at an exact 90 degree angle, even though I knew it was WRONG for that particular cartridge. You can spend countless hours dialing in a cartridge. WHAT FUN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 14, 2002 Author Share Posted November 14, 2002 To any and all MMF-7 owners. Have any of you attempted to clamp the record directly to the platter sans mat or anything? Just curious what the result was. I know VPI has the type of acrylic that more mimics records and does not use mats. Neither does "The Turntable" by Progressive-Engineering. Some dont like the acylic platter sound. Still, I am interested to know the comparison. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 See question above. Chris? Craig? Clipped? Anyone even try clamping on your MMF-7 directly to the acrylic? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 I could try it but I need an amp to connect it to Seriously, I've added that to my experimentation list ... plus trying the LPs on the donut without the clamp ... probably should have tried that first and that's probably the way it's intended to be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Mobile, I haven't tried that yet but I will. It just seems like that would be hard on the LP being against the hard platter. I ordered and recieved both types of the donuts. it seems like Chris is on to something there I don't think the donut is designed to be used with a clamp. Looks like Wally forgot me. He swore he would have a new cartrigde out to me as soon as Mr. Hall was back on the 12th. I called and his answering message says on Vacation till after thanksgiving. Some service there huh !! Not very happy with him now ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 I think I suggested that the Donut with the clamp would causing more sticking problems about five or six posts back in trying to quell the C&S problem. I know it was designed to be used on the guy's Linn which is without clamp. As for the Acrylic, please see the multitude of tables using the acrylic platter with NO MAT AT ALL. My question is in relation to the type of Acrylic used. As for tables with acylic platter that DONT use mats, MOST dont. A sampling would include the VPI HW-19 Jr to the Mk IV, VPI Aries, VPI TNT, VPI Scout, Clearaudio Champion - Solution - Recovery - Reference, Progressive-Engineering's The Turntable, Teres, etc. In fact, almost ALL the acrylic platter tables DO NOT use a mat. The Acrylic was thought to provide the best link to the vinyl thereby becoming a de-facto EXTENSION of the vinyl. So clamping the record to the platter would be like ALL the VPI tables ever made as well as a host of other tamble designs. Some people dont like the acrylic platter sound as much; it's a taste thing. But it surely does not HURT the record by any means. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 I still think MY suggestions are worth a try. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 Are you talking the baby head or the mat upon mat theory? I really think using any two mats together would make the coupling action, so important with this design, worse. I would think go with one or the other but if putting two together, it would lose many of the properties it is trying to gain. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Here are my thoughts in (from) a (the) nutshell (that is my head) : A while back, I asked about the sonic reasons for a mat. Is it to couple the vinyl to the platter, or to isolate it from the platter? I think you've suggested both (as I recall, you suggested a mat would isolate the vinyl from motor noise of a direct drove table). You also suggest that the closer the platter material resembles the vinyl, maybe the better. C&S finds the sticky nature of the mat a pain in the rear. So... MY suggested simple experiment is to sandwich a ringmat between the platter, and a sacrificial record (same material as you're playing, right?). If this works, you could even glue a ringmat to the disc (not to the platter), so things didn't slip around when changing records. Why do you automatically give this your thumbs down? Lots of things are layered: clothing, roofing material, the earth itself. Nothing of which to be afraid! fini Edit: you called it "resonance control," not isolation. Is this not the same? You post was found about halfway down this page: http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?mode=viewtopic&topicID=26970&num=20&sessionID={4318BCF6-ACF8-4277-A0E1-D97164EF50C3}&pageNo=4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 I tend to agree with Craig, that clamping an LP down directly on the unmatted platter seems hard on the LPs. There is always dust etc. which could be pressed into the vinyl. I would rather use a cushioning gasket. Becasue of the annoyance of the donut mats sticking to the LPs, and all the talk of having to adjust the VTA for every slight change of mat thickness, and the fact that I don't really think I would hear any difference anyway, I have reverted to the default situation of using the MMF-7 with the felt mat it came with, and life is good again since I am trying to focus on listening to music. When I feel like getting into endless tweaking mode again in the next few days, maybe I will try out the donut mats one more time before sending them back for a refund. One more time please for science: how does the stylus know or care what is underneath the LP? fini, your idea of having the mat underneath a dummy vinyl LP seems interesting but would add enough thickness so that the VTA adjustment would be necessary and so far I haven't wanted to mess with that. I think I will wait until I am fed up and so totally dissatisfied with the sound of my new MMF-7 that I will want to do something about it, so far, now that I got the major feedback problem solved, I am happy with the sound, and the cool platform I improvised, so it will be awhile before I am wanting to open up new cans of time consuming worms to my already overwhelming schedule of backlogged projects. As it is I already move slow enough on everything. btw, that inflatable isolation platform still has not arrived, I think the guy who sells those had to go out into his garage and whip up another one out of some old bicycle inner tubes just for my order. At this point, that thingie is destined to sit under the Rega Planet CD player, because, again, I am now not unhappy with the sound of the MMF-7 which is sitting elegantly under my handball cushioned slab of marble and the sound is just fine. I get tired of the endless tweaking when I cannot find time to get the styrofoam peanuts off the floor. I was even considering the possibility of just leaving a 8 to 11 inch layer of these puffy peanut packing mamas all throughout the house, kind of like the straw in the barn. Might also be cozy and warm sleeping in a nest of styrofoam peanuts. I just don't have the time or patience to be picking these things up any more. Also it is a muscle strain. Eventually I will have to call that service you mentioned that comes to the house to pick up the styrofoam peanuts for you. What was their number again? I remember they had a weird name, wasn't it something like "Coit R Us" ? Whoa.....nellie..... -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 I guess I'm just going to have to get my own Underwear Woody thing so I can play with it myself. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 fini, Have you thought about what kind of fluid you will get for the grooves? Check with the Disc Doctor. huh-huh-huh , huh-huh...... {do you know the words to the Woody Woodpecker song? I am trying to stop the humming.} c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 I'm just winging it here, but didn't Moondoggie have a Woody? Or am I thinking of Laura Louie? Clipped, Wasn't that written by Walter Glans? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 16, 2002 Author Share Posted November 16, 2002 As for clamping the record directly to the acrylic, there sure are a lot of people hurting their records.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 So much for the dust theory. Ok I will put on an LP sans mat and report back. -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Where are these record clamps you speak of? I have never heard of such a thing. Of course, I have only owned 2 tables (one from '78 and the other from '89) and know nothing of the newer technology. I sure do like the looks of those tables, however... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Four of the pictures above have those clamps. They are those black knobs on the center spindle. They press down on the center of the LP "clamping it to the platter". The MMF-7 has a large one which actually screws down, eg. the spindle is threaded. Others I have seen just press down using friction and not a threaded spindle. I guess the theory is to make sure there is no slippage between the platter and the LP, or maybe it is something else, in which case I am sure some of the listeners will call in with a more expert opinion. c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 "That's what Henry Ford was about. That first Model T car was jute and hemp... the fuel was to be bio-fuel; you'd get fuel from hemp seeds." I think Woody would recommend a mat made from, ....you guessed it. -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Ok, I am now playing an LP without the felt. I think the sound is ever so slightly more acrylic sounding especially the dust in the grooves. Could it be that the sound is somewhat brighter and less felt like? I think maybe, but I will have to do more AB listening. I might also like to compare with a bongo skin mat for the latin grooves. I think maybe I like the nude acrylic sound. Do you think the MMF-7 was designed for this option? Why did they supply the felt? One can still hear this on every Junior High school campus: "Is that sweater felt"? -c7s Since the acrylic is more solid, would not some kind of mat better isolate the LP from any vibrations that might still be present in the platter? This is related to the same question fini asked a few minutes ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.