Rudy81 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Just finished the new timing and EQ setup with the Stacks at the back of my bass bins. Distance of drivers from BB front is 23.5". After spending some time looking at the various distance plots I took yesterday for my 7" wings, I felt the rear most position offered the lowest cross-able frequency. I estimate the crossover point now to be 600hz. The reason I can't give an exact number is that I am using the Danley style no-name crossover. That is, no crossover at all and just Attenuation at the cross frequency. The AMT drops off pretty dramatically below 400 Hz, so I played around with the settings until I got something that at least 'looks' good on the graphs. The Main SPL measurement shows a dropoff of the very high frequency range that is due to mic placement. Once of the issues with taking these measurements is that HF response is very sensitive to mic placement. Since I was mostly interested in the crossover region, I tended to place the mic closer to the center of the AMT and BB vs. getting the optimum AMT response. As it turned out, I needed NO delay for my L/R mains. The center channel needed less than 1ms delay since I cannot move that driver as far back as the others due to the front wall dipole issue and the fact that my movie screen sits right behind the ctr speaker. Here are the graphic results. Now, on to an afternoon of critical listening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Well, this didn't take long at all. Please remember this is my purely subjective impression and you will have to play around with your system to find what you like. The following differences are super obvious and it took just a couple of minutes of music to notice. First, my bass bins are 30" off the floor. This may become important if you are using a Khorn, or other tall bass bin. I noted two major audible differences immediately, and eventually moved the stack forward again to see if I was imagining the difference. Moving the stack back caused the following: - Image was very similar to the same. - Soundstage was a little less engaging, but not a deal breaker. What is a deal breaker is that the entire sound stage moved UP, as though it was now above my head. It is very obvious that the sound was now above me, not directly in front of me. When I moved the stack back up front, the sound stage moved down to where it normally has been, in front of my listening position. This is less than desirable for my sitting LP. However, this could be a big plus if you are using this setup in a shop or garage where you are normally standing when listening. This little test seems to confirm that for me, I prefer the stack closer to the edge of the bass bin. I find the soundstage just a little more expansive and 3 dimensional. The big and obvious difference is the perceived 'height' of the soundstage. What might be really cool is to have the stack back for movies, so the sound is at the height of my video screen. But, for music I prefer the forward position thus far. Back for more listening..... Edit: After more listening, the above is confirmed. Overall, in my room, the more you move the stack toward the back of the bass bin, the more the soundstange moves up. Also, you start to lose some of the 'magic' these drivers produce. YMMV, this is just my impressions and I would like to hear what you guys find as time goes on. The closer to the edge, the more the high's sparkle and the more airy and open the soundstage becomes. Honestly, I hate using all these 'audiophile' terms, but it is the only way I can telegraph what I am hearing. I am now going to re-time the stack in the current position, wings flush with the front end of the bass bin. I will keep the crossover as low as possible and go on to enjoying the setup until you guys have a chance to get your drivers and do some experimenting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Rudy81 said: number is that I am using the Danley style no-name crossover. Can you link some specific reading on this? I've seen you mention it before and I either haven't come across the information or it's all melting together in my head and not standing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said: Can you link some specific reading on this? I've seen you mention it before and I either haven't come across the information or it's all melting together in my head and not standing out. You can start here, but Chris discusses it in several posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Thaddeus Smith said: Can you link some specific reading on this? I've seen you mention it before and I either haven't come across the information or it's all melting together in my head and not standing out. See the following post: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/182419-subconscious-auditory-effects-of-quasi-linear-phase-loudspeakers/&do=findComment&comment=2388972 Chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkalsi Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 ETA - Friday. If they come in, I’ll post my vertical/horizontal measurements over the weekend. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, dkalsi said: ETA - Friday. If they come in, I’ll post my vertical/horizontal measurements over the weekend. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I wouldn't hold my breath on the delivery unless you've gotten some kind of official tracking information and if you have, I need to know how you pulled that off. I get that they got backed up but I don't understand the lack of any confirmation after having to call them and being told when they would ship and assuring me that I would get the tracking information. almost a week later and 2 follow up e-mails and still crickets. I was completely understanding after speaking with them but not in the same place at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I guess I lucked out by ordering mine when I did.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said: I guess I lucked out by ordering mine when I did.. Me too! Although my third order took longer than the first two and I never got shipping confirmation. Not a big deal as long as I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkalsi Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Can someone please post raw measurements of the of their AMTs - just the AMTs - no wings. I don't know if there is a problem with my pair, but these is a HUGE variance between left & right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkalsi Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Below is a measurement of just one of the Heils - with 80uf protection capacitor. (0 - 10 - 20 - 30) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkalsi Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Here is the vertical response - again measured with 80 uf Protection Cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 24, 2020 Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 They need to break in. I wouldn't worry about measurements for a week or so. Here are the normalized polar sonograms based on 10 degree increment measurements after they had broken in (also posted on page 2 of this thread-plotted two different ways): Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 24, 2020 Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 The same data in non-sonogram format (non-normalized): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 @dkalsi, don't freak out yet! @Chris A is correct about breaking in the drivers. I noted anomalies also when the drivers were new. What I have done is to hook up the drivers and let them play music for a day or so. Last time I did that I looked at the anomalies before and after. There is something to this 'break in' period for these drivers. I have been gentle with them until I feel they have broken in. The questions is, what are your first impressions of the overall sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Did you pressure the folks to hurry up and make yours? Not a call I'd make; rather it would be "take your time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkalsi Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 12 hours ago, Rudy81 said: The questions is, what are your first impressions of the overall sound? First impressions is that they are mighty heavy!!!! Right now I've made a simple crossover and have them playing from 2000hz onwards. I'll drop the crossover to 800hz and see how that sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkalsi Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, glens said: Did you pressure the folks to hurry up and make yours? Not a call I'd make; rather it would be "take your time." I was guilty of calling them twice to figure our when they would ship. Hopefully I'm won't be paying for that call now. I'm going to take Chris's and Rudy's advice and let them break-in over the next couple days and then re-measure. Nonetheless, it would be interesting to see left and right measurements for each pair that people have purchased here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I just received a tracking number. Wow! I'll take it, at least I know it's been processed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 24, 2020 Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Pete H said: I just received a tracking number. Wow! I'll take it, at least I know it's been processed. I received a UPS tracking number from ESS about an hour and a half ago, too. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts