Slight change in status as reflected in my sig....

[maxg]

Well as you can see below I am now an ex-member of the ACA. Nothing too sinister - a slight falling out that caused me to evaluate the aims of the club in comparison to my own.

I suddenly realised that by the definition of the club I am not a "high end" person and actually have no desire to be so.

Sadly there are no alternative clubs here in Athens that I know of - maybe I should start one...

On the other hand what would I claim us to be? The not the high end, but stereo and preferably vinyl on reasonably priced gear that performs beyond all expectations despite the improper placement of the equipment club?

Doesnt really have that ring to it does it?

ah well - back to listening to, and buying vinyl.

As an aside - it looks like there may be something of a market for my DSOTM recording that plays in similar fashion to the above. I spoke to a dealer who may have a client willing to pay some serious $$$ for the thing.

Should be enough to get me a Project 9 if it pans out.

Keep your fingers crossed for me.

[Deang]

The 'high-end' isn't always about the music, but about manipulating the music, and more about the equipment than anything else. Many times, there is no relationship between the level of musicality a system can propagate -- and the cost of the system.

I'm still a big believer in diminishing returns as well. There is a point at which the whole thing just becomes nonsensical.

To me, it's simply about tearing down the veil. I want the speakers to disappear. I don't want to be aware of a systems character. I just want the music to pull me in.

To me, it's about the feeling I would get just cruising in my Cuda with the Jensen coaxials going. Just being with the music, and not so much 'listening' to it.

I think Klipsch does a better job at this than anything I have heard to date.

[AnalOg]

You hit it right on the nose Dean.

[dubai2000]

ABSOLUTELY!

Wolfram

[Deang]

What is it they say? Even a blind squirrel stumbles into an acorn now and then.

[T2K]

deang, we had a blind squirrel around here for a while. Noticed this afternoon he was laying in the street mashed flat as a pancake.

Keith

[jdm56]

DeanG>> What is it they say? Even a blind squirrel stumbles into an acorn now and then.

In my part of the world, the saying is: "Even a blind HOG finds an acorn now and then." Probably something to do with the agricultural history of the region.-ha But if we're talking about a squirrel, I think he or she might stumble ONTO an acorn now and then, but probably not INTO an acorn. Stumbling INTO an acorn would probably require a suspension of most of the known physical laws that govern our universe. Or perchance you were thinking of the rodent merely bumping into said acorn, which as all thinking persons must admit, is certainly within the realm of the probable; particularly if the our furry little friend has recently suffered a mild head trauma due to an unfortunate encounter with an automobile. In which case though, the outcome is much more likely to be similar to what our good friend, Keith alluded to in his post. (sigh)

...Which reminds me - PANCAKES FOR BREAKFAST TOMORROW!

Oh yeah, I think you're on the mark about the audiophile thing.

[flappycars]

Max,

This high end thing , what is it exactly? I have seen people who have very expensive components and have no understanding whatsoever about 1) what makes a system sing or 2) that their system sounds total pants.

I met a guy once with real high end stuff who only owned 3 CD's and no vinyl . He was a Hi Fi nut. I am sorry, he was not interested in music though! The two go together.

Surely it is a sense of balance.I know of no Hi Fi club in the UK whatsoever but the idea rather appeals to me. Would not want toomuch snobbery though!My whole system cost around £6000. Some new, some used.To me it is a fair amount of money. To some people it is a fortune. To others, it would not even buy the interconnects. In any case, people with humbler systems than mine are probably on the upgrade path anyway, especially if they join a club!

[flappycars]

Max,

This high end thing , what is it exactly? I have seen people who have very expensive components and have no understanding whatsoever about 1) what makes a system sing or 2) that their system sounds total pants.

I met a guy once with real high end stuff who only owned 3 CD's and no vinyl . He was a Hi Fi nut. I am sorry, he was not interested in music though! The two go together.

Surely it is a sense of balance.I know of no Hi Fi club in the UK whatsoever but the idea rather appeals to me. Would not want toomuch snobbery though!My whole system cost around £6000. Some new, some used.To me it is a fair amount of money. To some people it is a fortune. To others, it would not even buy the interconnects. In any case, people with humbler systems than mine are probably on the upgrade path anyway, especially if they join a club!

[flappycars]

Max,

This high end thing , what is it exactly? I have seen people who have very expensive components and have no understanding whatsoever about 1) what makes a system sing or 2) that their system sounds total pants.

I met a guy once with real high end stuff who only owned 3 CD's and no vinyl . He was a Hi Fi nut. I am sorry, he was not interested in music though! The two go together.

Surely it is a sense of balance.I know of no Hi Fi club in the UK whatsoever but the idea rather appeals to me. Would not want toomuch snobbery though!My whole system cost around £6000. Some new, some used.To me it is a fair amount of money. To some people it is a fortune. To others, it would not even buy the interconnects. In any case, people with humbler systems than mine are probably on the upgrade path anyway, especially if they join a club!

[maxg]

Flappy,

Looks like you really want to know what this high end thing is....

Well I am probably not the person to ask as the only sure thing I can tell you is that it is not me.

Yes - it does involve spending huge amounts of money on a system that reproduces music - it just doesnt seem to be focused on building a balanced system capable of playing a wide variety of music.

To be fair there are few systems if any capable of reproducing, say, a heavy metal concert one minute and a string quartet the next (although KHorn based systems can come as close as anything I have heard). I am certainly of the opinion that no system can provide that massive attack you want with certain types of music and at certain times of the day whilst concurrently being able to portray a more relaxed gentle approach for delicate musical moments.

What has struck me with the high end is that if anything such systems are less capable of such swings than more moderate HiFi systems, including my own.

[arco]

Max,

Only thing that saves your post is that you might (and will as, I believe, you are an honest person) contradict it tomorrow!

Now, let's be fair and admit that in the rather short time you have been with us you met people (me, among others...) who not only did not even think of you as a "low end" person, but tried to help as much as they could regarding your upgrading plans. At least, you should recognize that your rediscovery of vinyl (which seems to give you so much joy!) started as a result of our meetings.

People will always be humans and you are surely aware, as well as I, that in every club, party or whichever collective scheme, you cannot say everybody is to your exact liking. The contrary would be a world first and that's why we all have to make choices.

Deciding to leave is O.K. with me and you don't even have to state, here, the real reason. It's rather your generalisations that fueled this reply...

[maxg]

Arco,

You are a gentleman and someone who's opinions on audio I value highly (as I am sure you are aware).

I really hope that my leaving will not effect our friendship - I have tried to be as diplomatic as possible over what happened at the club but suffice to say that it became impossible for me to maintain a relation with it.

I am happy to talk to you any time if you want to know all the gory details - lets just say a swathe of posts were deleted from the ACA forum including one from me, and, I think one from the president that would have made it clear what the problem was (or at least a part of the problem).

[maxg]

Actually one thought occurs. My discovery of vinyl was almost directly down to you as a person - who I met through this site, rather than through the club but lets not split hairs.

I do not deny that I did benefit in many areas from my association with various club members. I would like to think that there was an element of reciprocity there too...

[Audible Nectar]

Gee, maxg, (hehe, but seriously) I always considered you a "high end" guy. I guess it's all relative.

I never really considered myself as such. I am an audio enthusiast more than an audiophile (audiophile to me implies an endless constant upgrading process where the system is never really good enough, or simply the persuit of the perfect system, which leads back to endless, constant upgrading). Since I have arrived at what I believe to be that "point of diminishing returns", I am no longer driving myself nuts pining for upgrades. It is not perfect, but it is damn good, so I have arrived at the "enjoyment" stage of the system's life cycle.

The gear isn't the emphasis of the system for me, it's all about the music it puts forth. For many, it's about the gear more than the music. I guess that's OK for some, but it's a game I really can't afford to play, and ultimately, I'm after the result of the gear more than the gear itself. Klipsch is the means to that end (a big part of it, anyway). I guess that makes me a "musicphile".

IOW, I would rather own a pair of pink polka dotted speakers that rock the world, vs. a pair of good looking speakers that sound like ba ba ba bo$......OK, you get the point.

Quite frankly, I am quite glad to be at that point with my system. I can relax, be less critical (I suppose one year of critical, pick-my-system-apart listening is sufficient), and just enjoy the music. It really is the best part of my Klipsch/system ownership.

I find that the Klipsch forum does strike a good balance between the two. Here's hoping this little Klub still suits you OK

[Invidiosulus]

"Whay is it they say?"

Well "they" say alot of things but I know this,

Even a stopped pig finds pearls twice a day.

Somehow that doesn't sound right, I might have got it wrong.

Seriously though, I think it is about listening to music on what sounds good to you.

Are there better, more expensive systems than mine? YES(duh).

Do their owners get more enjoyment out of them than I do with my stereo? I think not.

I used to be the happiest kid alive because I could listen to the local college radio station on my old boombox with a cheap pair of panasonic headphones.

Now I have a much nicer stereo(108Db, no problem) and I almost think I had more fun back in my boombox days, how I miss the blissful days of my

youth(lol, i'm 21).

Still the upgrade road is wide open, one of these days I may even discover vinyl

Peace, Josh

[mobile homeless]

Max, although I am not biggest proponent for all things in Audiophile Club land, I do believe many of the members probably helped you out as well, including Arco (as you rightly noted..although I thought I also had a hand in that vinyl direction! heh...) I still believe most of the member sites I saw were highly biased toward the gear-as-tool side of the spectrum.

If you DID elect to stay with the club, I bet the "Music comes first" approach might be a breath of fresh air to a few, while others might be in this category already. Still, leaving the club might be short-changing both sides. Sometimes, a newbie with enthusiasm has a more open mind and can see clearly, strangely enough. You might be able to help them as much as their experience helping you.

First things first, I would remove the "Ex-member of ACA" from your signature as it is really unecessary to the overall point here. Evidently, the typical club-type politics came into play which does have the ability to hurt. But rise above. Do you need to state as much in the sigature?

As in all clubs, there is always some good and bad with the leaders establishing the tone. I just thought the online presentation of the ACA was a little over the top and too biased towards the gear-on-pedestal side of the equation. In other words, if you left, I do understand. Perhaps you can keep the personal associations with the members who shared your love of music.

And do remember, looking for the best gear to relay the soul and essence of the music is not necessarily a bad thing at all. To me, it depends on your perspective. You might still stand to gain a lot if taking the good from what the group has to offer (as long as you keep perspective).

kh

ps- I have to admit, I saw you heading down the upgrade path faster than most!! heh.

[maxg]

Thanks for the input Kelly...

You will notice the signature has gone - it was always going to be temporary.

I do indeed intend to keep in touch with some of the people I met through the club - there are some very good people there.

As it stands I will not be re-joining soon - maybe at some later date but not for now.

AS for your input to my system I think you know well enough on both the vinyl and the tube front.

As it happens one of my tesla's just blew (loud humming and sudden blue colour - I think its dead Jim!) so I am back on the 6550's which dont sound at all as bad as I remembered (the ZTPRE from Acro having a lot to do with that no doubt) but the image size is smaller and the overall impact reduced.

Anyway now I have to go and get another matched quad of some KT88 or another - unless those 300B based amps show up soon...

[skaloumbakas]

I feel very strong about this Forum not being the proper place to talk about A.C.A. ethics and procedures and gossip and such, so I have to admit, I thought very much to intervene in this particular topic which has nothing to do with the Forum contents and which is of no interest to its users.

But I decided to do so in order to clear up the situation. It is always sad when the Club looses one of its members anyway ...

Max, I suggest to you a little honesty, mainly to yourself ...

If somebody looks at your Stereo photo album, he will think that this white turntable down there belongs to you. I can tell you I do not have so many pictures of it myself. I mention that because you are implying that you are not interested in funcy equipment but only in music!

And I have to state that during your presence in the Club, you were the fastest upgrading fellow among all Members. (Competing with only one other member I think...) And here, in this Klipsch Forum, if you look at your posts, 80% of them are dealing with thoughts of:

t/t upgrading or not upgrading, cartridge changing or not changing, swifting from Heresys, or going to Sansuis or going back to Heresys or keeping them all, puting on or taking off the covers, and so on and so forth...

Max, do you recall when you joined the Club and heard my system for the first time, you asked me what equipment to change, did I reply to you:

"... Putting your t/t on a proper place and play a little bit with your cables will be sufficient..."

Didn't I?

I certainly do enjoy music!, although I do not have the time I used to have, with 3 kids plus my job, plus running the Club, plus updating the web site, plus sleeping sometimes ... By the way do you remember the lovely baby-girl picture popping out of your Profile Page for a month when she was born - I hope she is fine?

The posts in the Club's Forum that you are referring above in reply to ARCO (you shouldn't), have not been deleted by themselves. I did delete them, as I have the right to do so (and the obligation), as ARCO does as well, been a moderator and who fully supports this action when situation gets out of hand. But that doesn't mean that I regret even for a second of what it was written or the way it was written by me in these pages. (They were not referring to you, remember...) And I have kept them all in my files.

Max, leave the time to cure some wounds and review again the situation when you will be more relaxed. As for your re-joining, this is not quite automatique as you probably imagine ...

[AnalOg]

Your right it is of no interest to this forums users!

I think you and Max need to go on a private one on one. there is this really cool technolgy out called email, otherwise the phone works, I've even found writing a letter and affixing an address & stamp gets sufficient results.

Thankx - just my humble two sense.

Tom