Anyone care to sound off about Interconnects???

[Jalen01]

Hi All,

Although this subject has been debated for years now, here and other boards alike. I'm not trying to start any wars. I was hoping you guys could give your current opinions on Interconnects (IC's) & Speaker Wire (SW) (Both Possitive & Negative Comments welcome). The IC's I'm considering are Monster M950i or M1000i or Something from MIT. As for speaker wire the jury is still out on those.

You guys may all know that I'm constantly tweaking My set-up trying to improve it somehow. I'm now entertaining the idea that IC's will open things up for me.

My Current Set-ups:

HT Rig:

Pioneer d906s Reciever

Aiwa dv370

JVC VCR

Klipsch RF-3II's

Klipsch RC-3II

JBL N-26's

Kenwood SW300 Sub

AR IC's

RShack Gold IC's

No Name 12Ga. OFC Wires (Front 3)

Music Rig:

Rotel RB 976 Amp

Parasound 850 Pre

Cambridge Audio D500se CD Player

Paradigm Mini Monitors

Monster 400mkII IC

AR 16ga OFC Wires

Things for my music system are still alittle sterile or compressed. Things I'm hoping to gain are Airy Highs, Better seperation of instruments, Better Soundstage Depth\Width\Height. I know per reviews that most IC's especially monsters have good Bass, heck my Radio shacks have good bass (Anyways, Bass isn't a issue if i could obtain a little more of the other attributes. Besides I have a sub).

What do you guys think? Are these some of the things that IC's could help improve upon. If so, any particular Brands I should consider for those type sonics?

Thanks,

Jalen

[jtkinney]

I tried to answer this last night, but my computer locked up. Thanks Bill Gates.

Sorry to digress. I am using cables that I built back in the 70's, when I built my first Heathkit, along with Radio Shacks gold plated cables. I can't tell the difference. As long as the old ones are cleaned up, they tend to oxidize over time, they work just fine.

[WMcD]

I'm in the camp that plain old connectors are good enough. I use the old RCA's which came with the VCR and the DVD player, for the most part. And I use RS gold plated connectors in a few applications.

It is pretty much the same story with speaker wire.

Now, anyone is perfectly entitle to say I must try super wire before passing judgment. People here, speaking in perfectly good faith, claim improvements. But I can't buy it.

It is interesting that you're seeking results like more air, more separation, sound stage, etc. Those are terms usually used by reviewers of recordings. Now, some of those I can believe are the results of better, or at least different recording techinques. These involve mike placement, mixing, phase, hall reverberation, frequency response etc. And I agree entirely that some recording are superior to others.

The terms also apply to the results of loudspeakers and their placement in the room. This is the output side of all those recording factors. I agree entirely that some speakers and some placements are superior to others in general and may be better for some recordings.

It seems to me that the electrical connections, like the ones we are using, are the very least likely to have any significant influence. I have not seen any measurements which indicate that super wire is superior to the cheap stuff as far as getting an audio signal from here to there.

The audio world has been unduely influenced by cable manufacturer's claims. It used to be that a good amp was described as "a piece of wire, with gain." Now wires are described as if they are amplifiers with no gain. (Where amps are said to be airy, with soundstage, etc.)

It just doesn't make sense. If you want to find a piece of equipment in the chain of devices in the signal path which has flat frequency response, no phase issues, no delay, no inversion, etc. It is going to be the wire. Certainly wire can't have nearly the same issues of frequency response, phase, delay, reververation, etc., as mike placement, speaker placement, amps, the recording chain, or whatever.

The bottom line is that wire doesn't cause a problem, in my view. So better wire is not a solution.

We will now hear from the loyal opposition.

Gil

[minn_male42]

as long as you have a good solid connection...copper is copper...everything else is marketing....

monster cable is one of the most successful marketing companies in the world...

[TBrennan]

I call them patchcords like we used to do in the old days. "Interconnects" is an PR invented word, one invented by the industry that makes patchcords. The reason is that they hoped to give patchcords more cachet so they could sell them for more money. Americans are rubes at heart and fall for this kind of phoney bull**** all the time. The tragedy is that this works.

It's like the recent infestation of houses that are brick on the front and siding on the other 3 sides, literally a "false front", meant to appeal to socially unsure of themselves middle-class people, many of whom have mediocre "business" educations from Cow Colleges that have lately taken to calling themselves "Universities" and want to look "classy". These poor saps completely miss the irony that someone with real class hates cheezy artiface and would rather have all 4 sides siding than 3 siding and one brick; thus the poor rube confirms his lack of class even as he seeks to enchance it. He can never win because his poor education and lack of introspection means he'll never even understand the game, even if he buys "interconnects" instead of patchcords.

[Soundthought]

Hey Tom.

What's all that about?

Having a bad day or something?

[JCturboT]

----------------

On 12/6/2002 10:09:29 PM TBrennan wrote:

It's like the recent infestation of houses that are brick on the front and siding on the other 3 sides, literally a "false front", meant to appeal to socially unsure of themselves middle-class people, many of whom have mediocre "business" educations from Cow Colleges that have lately taken to calling themselves "Universities" and want to look "classy". These poor saps completely miss the irony that someone with real class hates cheezy artiface and would rather have all 4 sides siding than 3 siding and one brick; thus the poor rube confirms his lack of class even as he seeks to enchance it. He can never win because his poor education and lack of introspection means he'll never even understand the game, even if he buys "interconnects" instead of patchcords.

----------------

Tom,

You just gave me a newfound sense of pride in my TRUE 4 SIDED Brick Home!

Jeff

[MrMcGoo]

The audio wire business is largely a "snake oil" business IMHO. Big increases in price for very small if any useable benefit. That said, I believe I get much better response from my RS-7s when I changed to 12 ga. stranded zip cord from 16 ga. Lower resistance definitely helps on longer runs.

Video seems to benfit from better cables. Signals run over 30 Mhz in some HD applications. Silver plated copper seems to help on component video. Unfortunately, the snake oil boys price the good video cables for far more than they are worth.

If we stop paying ridiculous prices, the snake oil boys will rethink their marketing strategy. Encouraging others to be cautious consumers can only help.

Bill

[Audio Flynn]

Always my favoite subject.

Jalen nice Pistons logo

I am from Livonia, Michigan

Major dislike for new forum, it does not state where people live like the old one.

Reasons for buying better patchcords(I agree to call something what it is and not sugar coat it ie...pedophile priests are child rapists).

1. Keep EMI from fouling up the signal. Maximum sheilding helps near a TV or digital component, generally the worst EMI propagaters in a HT system.

2. Better terminations. I understand silver is a better conductor than gold.

3. If you have a few grand in your system expeimemting with a $ 100 pair of patchcords or speaker wire is really pocket change for a tweak.

What I have heard make a difference.

Audio Quest Coral from DAC to preamp. More clarity and better soundstage.

Homemade 10 ga extension cords

Dedicated home wiring circuit properly grounded

Speaker cables...Biwiring absolutely makes RB 5s sound better for all attributes.

Solid core sounds better than strand to me. Not sure why.

All reviews I have read say PS Audio AC regenerators are a great audible improvement.

I cannot see paying $ 500 for a pair of anything but speakers or monoblocks; but $ 150-250 sounds reasonable for a pair of speaker cables or patchcords.

But I have about $ 12,000 in Audio and Video acqisitions over the past 10 years so spending a few bucks on cables and stuff is a small % of system investment for me.

[MrMcGoo]

Audio Flynn,

It gets to be a bit more than $100 or $200 for interconnects. I stopped counting at $1,500 for interconnects in my home theater. (I use AQ as well and acquired all AQ at a discount.) There are about 50 connections on the back of my receiver. I do think that interconnects make a difference, but not in proportion to their price. Mark up is very high on AQ and Monster.

I do have to admit that my system is dead quiet. I attribute this, in part, to the fact that most of my digital connections are toslink.

I recently traded up in receivers. Dollar for dollar, it made a much larger difference IMO.

Bill

[TBrennan]

AudioReality---No, actually I had a very good day yesterday. Went down to Bridgeport in The City and partied with a bunch of fellow Boilermakers having a lay-off party at a tavern, hit a couple of more taverns and had dinner at Riccobene's. A good day. But thanks for asking.

I'm a boiling cauldron of social critique and a cynical bastard, the question just set me off. But it's true, all I said.

[Soundthought]

That's cool, Tom.

I feel the same way about Z-brick.

Especially, when it's used inside.

I didn't know you are a Boilermaker.

Some of my favorite people are fitters and boilermakers.

My father (rest his soul) fit pipe for 35 years.

I have nothing but respect for those who are true to the trade.

[TBrennan]

Reality---Oh yeah, I know lots of Fitters, 597 guys. Most of the contractors I work for do both Fitter and Boilermaker work. I'm out'a Local 1, Chicago. I started my apprenticeship in 1970, I'll retire in January 2004 when I turn 55. Both my sons went through the apprenticeship and are now journeyman Boilermakers. My girls were smarter and went to school. Now I have my own lawyer and I'll soon have a Classical Civilization scholar. At long last I have someone to talk to about the Antique Greeks and Romans, history being a passion of mine. :-)

[djk]

Cow College or Moo U, what's the difference?

Artificial Intellegence is AI, no matter where acquired.

AI = BS + Masters + PHD, and still an idi*t.

As regards wire, cables, etc, this guy makes sense: http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/

A DIY balanced power set up may help you more for the money.

As regards patch cables: the connector on the ends seems to make more of difference than the wire itself. The cheap, cheap, cheap, RadioShack RCAs with plastic handles sound better than any big gold RCA that I have found.

Your mileage may vary.

[Jalen01]

Hi all,

Well after several hours of trying to get a couple very detailed responses on here. I guess I'm gonna try and keep this one short and sweet (last two were erased, do to a brown-out & my own negligence).

William : I appreciate where your coming from on your reply. You make some really good points. But, after dropping nearly $3000.00+ Dollars on my Music\HT gear since last Christmas. I have to draw the line somewhere. I even went so far buy a Vintage Mcintosh Amp from AudioClassics.com to try and recreate the sonics I heard in the Mcintosh+Paradigm mini+ Old Sony ES CD Player+ Monster M-Series Connects & Wires System (this wasn't exactly High-end system either, Cause I could afford it If I decided to go that route). Unfortunately, I had to send it back, because the Amp only bested My Rotel In terms of Looks & Great Head Phone Jack.

As far as CD's go, I own over 450+ Cd's (Homemade Cd's\Mp3's Not included). My Musical taste range from Gospel to Grundge, from Eagles "hell freezes over" to Miles Davis "kind of blue" back over to Dave Matthews Band "busted stuff" to Busta Rhymes "genisis" . Not exactly SACD\DVD-Audio Quality. But, I think I own few CD's that a some would consider "Reference CD's". I still have that same Paul McCartney "all the best" Cd used to demo the Minis that produced the " Airy highs etc etc... that just plain sounds like blah on my system right now. So, the scenario with not having quality cd's is not the case.

Audio Flynn : Hi There Buddy. What's the deal with those Tigers and those Gawd awful Lions??? Ol' Marttywigs, should have been fired that day for that darn call. Yes, I was born and raised on Detroit's West Side. Fenkell & Livernois is my old stomping grounds (it's Ghetto Fab now). My Folks still lives out that way, But, I'm now in Mentor, OH which is about 20 minutes from Cleveland. My Family & I are now waiting to be shipped to Iceland here in February (I'm Prior Navy, and My Wife's 4 years from retiring) My 3 year old Sons name Is actually Jalen as in "Jalen Rose". Can you tell that I'm all about my Home State?

But, I have to stay lo-key out here in Ohio now. Especially, after that recent Michigan vs. Ohio State game. You see the way these fools where acting down here? Just tearing up the joint. You'd think they won the National Championship or something, LOL. Before, I wore My Blue & Gold\Detroit Gear with pride. Now I have to watch my back around here.

As far as the Connects & Wires go. I think I'll give them a shot. My dealer is offering 30 days money backs. If I don't like what I'm "Hearing or not Hearing" then I'll just take them back. No Questions asked. At least If this works out I'll save from having to buy an Ultra High-End Amp+Pre+who knows what else.

Thanks All,

Jalen

P.S. I messed up by adding that blue to this post

[Audio Flynn]

Jalen,

Always liked Jalen Rose. Not the pompus butt Mr. Webber is. To bad he ended up in Chicogo. He never seems to get the right cast of characters around him; I figured him and Reggie would not jell.

Lions tigers UGH! tough to watch

I was a student at Moo U in 1978 so I learned a little about BBall watchin Majic and Kelser. Then saw allot of Isaih and Lambeer

FINAL Clarification:

Spending $ 50 -100 for a pair of cables(patch or speaker) has never seemed to be a foolish investment for me.