Cf 2 shrill, upgrades?

[Lbk]

Been listening to my cf2" s for a week or so and find too them to shrill for my liking. Going to rope clauk and poly fill the cabinets. ( what is the best way to keep poly fill in place, spray glue? )

 

Are there any other cheap upgrades I can do to help? Don't want to spend much as I do planning on selling soon, just bought as I was curiousity. Thanks!

 

[Shiva]

If you're going to sell them, don't do anything to them that cant be easily undone.  What amp or receiver are you using? 

[Lbk]

2 minutes ago, Shiva said:

If you're going to sell them, don't do anything to them that cant be easily undone.  What amp or receiver are you using? 

Using a martanz 5004 preouts first tried Carver m t 01 and now running off a Wharfedale pro mp 1200.

 

Only want to do cheap easy upgrades, in others experience is it worth bracing the cabinet? Really have no issues with bass.

[001]

2 hours ago, Lbk said:

Been listening to my cf2" s for a week or so and find too them to shill for my liking. Going to rope clauk and poly fill the cabinets. ( what is the best way to keep poly fill in place, spray glue? )

 

Are there any other cheap upgrades I can do to help? Don't want to spend much as I do planning on selling soon, just bought as I was curiousity. Thanks!

 

 

what is "shill"?  did you mean shrill?  can you elaborate some more on what you're hearing that you want to fix?  shrill is usually described as too bright or harsh sounding in the upper mid to tweeter frequencies, bracing or poly fill cabinets wont change that.  

 

sounds like you just dont like the sound of the metal mid/tweet diaphram the cf2 uses.  could also be related to the room they are in that is too "live" sounding for already bright horn speakers.  do you have other klipsch speakers that sound ok in that room on the same system? 

 

if you plan to sell them i would leave them alone & let the new owner decide what they want to do. 

[billybob]

I would adjust them to sound less shrill. Or as said, sell them.

[wuzzzer]

Polyfill won't do anything to lessen the shrill sound you're experiencing.

How are they set up in your room?  Do you have hard floors or carpet?  How close are they to side walls?  Do you have them toed in or pointing straight ahead?

[Lbk]

18 hours ago, wuzzzer said:

Polyfill won't do anything to lessen the shrill sound you're experiencing.

How are they set up in your room?  Do you have hard floors or carpet?  How close are they to side walls?  Do you have them toed in or pointing straight ahead?

Was reading thur epic thread and read where wvu80 had harshness in upper frequency and did poly fill and dampen horn with silicon and shrillness disappeared. I realize his speakers where cf4's and my are cf2's but it's cheap and easy to do so thought I'd try it.

 

Figured since I am going remove the horn it won't be that much more work to put in a brace. Also plan on running a bead of pl premium on inside edges just to make sure cabinet is sealed.

 

Room is not conditioned but I am presently building diffusers and sound panels. Cf2's are in front of my chorus II's that are angled out 45 degrees and tucked hard into corners. After mods the chorus II's sound amazing. I realize the CF'2s are not placed perfectly but they sound good except for shrillness, clean, clear decent bass but that shrillness I was listening to some classic rock on fm and they sounded so bad I thought speakers where bad. Switch station to a different  type of music and  they sounded much better.

 

I am not ready to give up my chorus II speakers but I think the cf2's have potential, would love to hear some cf4's. Bought these because I heard so much good about epic, cf line never planned on keeping them, curious.

 

Are there other mods I could do to improve overall sound without rebuilding xovers or replacing drivers? Thanks!

 

[Dave A]

11 hours ago, Lbk said:

Was reading thur epic thread and read where you had harshness in upper frequency and did poly fill and dampen horn with silicon your shrillness disappeared. I realize your speakers where cf4's and my are cf2's but it's cheap and easy to do so thought I'd try it.

 

Figured since I am going remove the horn it won't be that much more work to put in a brace. Also plan on running a bead of pl premium on inside edges just to make sure cabinet is sealed.

 

Room is not conditioned but I am presently building diffusers and sound panels. Cf2's are in front of my chorus II's that are angled out 45 degrees and tucked hard into corners. After mods the chorus II's sound amazing. I realize the CF'2s are not placed perfectly but they sound good except for shrillness, clean, clear decent bass but that shrillness I was listening to some classic rock on fm and they sounded so bad I thought speakers where bad. Switch station to a different  type of music and  they sounded much better.

 

I am not ready to give up my chorus II speakers but I think the cf2's have potential, would love to hear some cf4's. Bought these because I heard so much good about epic, cf line never planned on keeping them, curious.

 

Are there other mods I could do to improve overall sound without rebuilding xovers or replacing drivers? Thanks!

 

In my experience if the drivers and diaphragms are in good shape the culprit is a crossover that needs recapping. While I have never worked on CF-2's I have worked on a number of Chorus I's and II's. Some were really sour sounding until recapped and then they sounded great. Here is a thread that may help.

 

[Lbk]

2 minutes ago, Dave A said:

In my experience if the drivers and diaphragms are in good shape the culprit is a crossover that needs recapping. While I have never worked on CF-4's I have worked on a number of Chorus I's and II's. Some were really sour sounding until recapped and then they sounded great. Here is a thread that may help.

 

Drivers are in good shape, guess I may have to look into xovers after all. Thanks Dave, I think😁🤔

[Dave A]

2 minutes ago, Lbk said:

Drivers are in good shape, guess I may have to look into xovers after all. Thanks Dave, I think😁🤔

I have measured hundreds, yes I mean that, of those old mylars and almost every one is high ESR.

[Lbk]

4 minutes ago, Dave A said:

I have measured hundreds, yes I mean that, of those old mylars and almost every one is high ESR.

I am going to pull xover tomorrow, once out I may some more advice. I real don't want to replace all caps unless absolutely necessary.

[001]

11 hours ago, Lbk said:

Was reading thur epic thread and read where wvu80 had harshness in upper frequency and did poly fill and dampen horn with silicon and shrillness disappeared. I realize his speakers where cf4's and my are cf2's but it's cheap and easy to do so thought I'd try it.

 

Figured since I am going remove the horn it won't be that much more work to put in a brace. Also plan on running a bead of pl premium on inside edges just to make sure cabinet is sealed.

 

Room is not conditioned but I am presently building diffusers and sound panels. Cf2's are in front of my chorus II's that are angled out 45 degrees and tucked hard into corners. After mods the chorus II's sound amazing. I realize the CF'2s are not placed perfectly but they sound good except for shrillness, clean, clear decent bass but that shrillness I was listening to some classic rock on fm and they sounded so bad I thought speakers where bad. Switch station to a different  type of music and  they sounded much better.

 

I am not ready to give up my chorus II speakers but I think the cf2's have potential, would love to hear some cf4's. Bought these because I heard so much good about epic, cf line never planned on keeping them, curious.

 

Are there other mods I could do to improve overall sound without rebuilding xovers or replacing drivers? Thanks!

 

 

inside edges of the horns & speakers with PL?  i would advise against using PL premium... that is construction adhesive & it will permanently glue whatever part it touches to the cabinet.  if you want to seal something use silicone or regular caulking... but these are ported speakers so true sealing isnt really needed.  make sure all drivers are tight but dont need to seal them air tight like a true sealed cabinet. 

 

each person will have their own opinion on mods they do... but fact is filling a cabinet does not effect mid/tweeter freq, its for bass. damping the horn might help but many others say it doesnt do much if at all for these plastic horns. 

 

another thing nobody has mentioned after reading that the shrill was gone on different music, is that it could very likely be the recording/song/source you were listening to when you heard it since it went away when you changed the station.  one thing klipsch speakers are known to do it reveal bad recordings because of their high efficiency,  songs that sound ok on other speakers can/will not sound good on klipsch since they expose any bad recordings. if the shrill is only there on certain songs/sources & goes away on other songs/sources you are probably just hearing a bad recording. 

 

but i agree with daves post above that the crossovers could be contributing to what you hear, they are getting at the age where they can start to degrade & regardless of what some others on here say about klipsch caps, they are not as good as higher quality modern caps.  you can use whatever brand/type you like or even go with the same types of caps but getting new ones should help vs the 25+ year old caps that are in there.      

[Dave A]

2 hours ago, Lbk said:

I am going to pull xover tomorrow, once out I may some more advice. I real don't want to replace all caps unless absolutely necessary.

OK how are you going to determine which ones are bad?  If you do not have a good capacitance meter that will measure ESR you have no way to determine what is bad in any case.

 

 

Using Audyn and Dayton caps, some like the 4.5uf will end up being 4.7uf because that is what is made unless you want to combine caps for more accuracy, the total for both if you do the work is $54.44 retail sale price at PE. Now if you have to hire it done or send them out to be rebuilt with caps the rebuilder uses it can run up more. Probably well in excess of $120.00. For example Sonicap 20uf $47.76 each and 33uf $72.23 each retail price which you will pay unless you have a business account set up. In this case you could spend just over $300 for the caps alone which is crazy.

[Lbk]

2 minutes ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

inside edges of the horns & speakers with PL?  i would advise against using PL premium... that is construction adhesive & it will permanently glue whatever part it touches to the cabinet.  if you want to seal something use silicone or regular caulking... but these are ported speakers so true sealing isnt really needed.  make sure all drivers are tight but dont need to seal them air tight like a true sealed cabinet. 

 

each person will have their own opinion on mods they do... but fact is filling a cabinet does not effect mid/tweeter freq, its for bass. damping the horn might help but many others say it doesnt do much if at all for these plastic horns. 

 

another thing nobody has mentioned after reading that the shrill was gone on different music, is that it could very likely be the recording/song/source you were listening to when you heard it since it went away when you changed the station.  one thing klipsch speakers are known to do it reveal bad recordings because of their high efficiency,  songs that sound ok on other speakers can/will not sound good on klipsch since they expose any bad recordings. if the shrill is only there on certain songs/sources & goes away on other songs/sources you are probably just hearing a bad recording. 

 

but i agree with daves post above that the crossovers could be contributing to what you hear, they are getting at the age where they can start to degrade & regardless of what some others on here say about klipsch caps, they are not as good as higher quality modern caps.  you can use whatever brand/type you like or even go with the same types of caps but getting new ones should help vs the 25+ year old caps that are in there.      

Sorry I was talking about pl premium on the inside edge's of cabinet not the drivers and such. With drivers I use frost king foam tape, worked good for me in past and easy to remove speakers.

 

Yes source may have been part of the problem ( FM radio). Still even with cd's harshness is still there just not as bad.

 

 

[Lbk]

6 minutes ago, Dave A said:

OK how are you going to determine which ones are bad?  If you do not have a good capacitance meter that will measure ESR you have no way to determine what is bad in any case.

 

 

Using Audyn and Dayton caps, some like the 4.5uf will end up being 4.7uf because that is what is made unless you want to combine caps for more accuracy, the total for both if you do the work is $54.44 retail sale price at PE. Now if you have to hire it done or send them out to be rebuilt with caps the rebuilder uses it can run up more. Probably well in excess of $120.00. For example Sonicap 20uf $47.76 each and 33uf $72.23 each retail price which you will pay unless you have a business account set up. In this case you could spend just over $300 for the caps alone which is crazy.

I will do work myself, going look inside and see what I need. ( what type of caps are being used ) I do have some sonic caps laying around.

[Dave A]

2 hours ago, Lbk said:

I will do work myself, going look inside and see what I need. ( what type of caps are being used ) I do have some sonic caps laying around.

YMMV I replace all electrolytics with poly caps and they sound better to me and last longer in spec before degrading.

[001]

3 hours ago, Lbk said:

Sorry I was talking about pl premium on the inside edge's of cabinet not the drivers and such. With drivers I use frost king foam tape, worked good for me in past and easy to remove speakers.

 

Yes source may have been part of the problem ( FM radio). Still even with cd's harshness is still there just not as bad.

 

 

 

yeah i confused that part, thought you meant using it on inside edge of where the drivers mount,  youre fine doing it on inside seams of the cabinet if you want but again since they are ported there is really no advantage to doing that aside from strengthening the cabinets some. 

 

3 hours ago, Lbk said:

I will do work myself, going look inside and see what I need. ( what type of caps are being used ) I do have some sonic caps laying around.

 

some like to use poly in place of electrolytics & theres nothing wrong with that but keep in mind, even crites uses lytics for the bass section & said there is no advantage to using polys there.  also when you get to the bigger values in that location a poly cap can be rather large & many times wont fit on the factory board without mods or manipulation.  another good company to use for caps & many other parts is ERSE, thats what crites uses for other than caps crossover components & the electrolytics.  he toold me they are a very good budget cap & measure excellent ESR.  ive used them a few times for klipsch & other speakers & they are very good caps, as good or better than other budget caps like dayton & cost less.   

[Lbk]

5 hours ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

yeah i confused that part, thought you meant using it on inside edge of where the drivers mount,  youre fine doing it on inside seams of the cabinet if you want but again since they are ported there is really no advantage to doing that aside from strengthening the cabinets some. 

 

 

some like to use poly in place of electrolytics & theres nothing wrong with that but keep in mind, even crites uses lytics for the bass section & said there is no advantage to using polys there.  also when you get to the bigger values in that location a poly cap can be rather large & many times wont fit on the factory board without mods or manipulation.  another good company to use for caps & many other parts is ERSE, thats what crites uses for other than caps crossover components & the electrolytics.  he toold me they are a very good budget cap & measure excellent ESR.  ive used them a few times for klipsch & other speakers & they are very good caps, as good or better than other budget caps like dayton & cost less.   

Going to pull xovers in the morning, hopefully I will have some sonic caps I can use. Is it a bad idea to replace only the caps in tweeter/horn pathway and any electroytic's, bass is fine. 

 

Knew erse made electronic components didn't know they caps, may have to check into those.

[Dave A]

5 hours ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

yeah i confused that part, thought you meant using it on inside edge of where the drivers mount,  youre fine doing it on inside seams of the cabinet if you want but again since they are ported there is really no advantage to doing that aside from strengthening the cabinets some. 

 

 

some like to use poly in place of electrolytics & theres nothing wrong with that but keep in mind, even crites uses lytics for the bass section & said there is no advantage to using polys there.  also when you get to the bigger values in that location a poly cap can be rather large & many times wont fit on the factory board without mods or manipulation.  another good company to use for caps & many other parts is ERSE, thats what crites uses for other than caps crossover components & the electrolytics.  he toold me they are a very good budget cap & measure excellent ESR.  ive used them a few times for klipsch & other speakers & they are very good caps, as good or better than other budget caps like dayton & cost less.   

This is the only thing I disagreed with Bob on. Some time back I got a set of KP-456's stock from Klipsch. The bass bin had a 50uf poly cap in there and not an electrolytic. The current pro crossovers from Klipsch also have 50uf mylar caps and not electrolytics. Pro Klipsch is made to a higher standard in my opinion. 

 

  So I had a set of Chorus I's a while back and decided to use a 68uf Audyn cap end see how it sounded. There was a clear improvement over that dinky little electrolytic. I also had a Crites KPT-456 crossover with that dinky electrolytic in there. I built more based on his crossover but used the Dayton 50uf poly and it sounded better. Yes it is a good economy choice to use the electrolytic. It is not the better choice for sound quality.  Also I know poly's are bigger but I have made it work without any problem every time. I had that "woofer circuit is basically a garbage can and does not need the poly caps" conversation with Bob and decided that this time he was not right. Keep in mind too that those Sonicaps he sells top out at 35uf on the Sonicap site and sell for $76.58 each. one 33uf and one 35uf would give you the 68uf required and cost appx $300 just for the 68uf equivalent to do a pair with Sonicaps. There is an economic reason to use cheaper caps if you insist on using sonicaps. Recapping a Chorus I with all Sonicaps would run over $400 just for the caps if you stayed just with them.

 

  I am not telling you what to do but what I have done to make me  happy and my reasoning and will leave it at that with no further comment about this here.

[Lbk]

1 hour ago, Dave A said:

This is the only thing I disagreed with Bob on. Some time back I got a set of KP-456's stock from Klipsch. The bass bin had a 50uf poly cap in there and not an electrolytic. The current pro crossovers from Klipsch also have 50uf mylar caps and not electrolytics. Pro Klipsch is made to a higher standard in my opinion. 

 

  So I had a set of Chorus I's a while back and decided to use a 68uf Audyn cap end see how it sounded. There was a clear improvement over that dinky little electrolytic. I also had a Crites KPT-456 crossover with that dinky electrolytic in there. I built more based on his crossover but used the Dayton 50uf poly and it sounded better. Yes it is a good economy choice to use the electrolytic. It is not the better choice for sound quality.  Also I know poly's are bigger but I have made it work without any problem every time. I had that "woofer circuit is basically a garbage can and does not need the poly caps" conversation with Bob and decided that this time he was not right. Keep in mind too that those Sonicaps he sells top out at 35uf on the Sonicap site and sell for $76.58 each. one 33uf and one 35uf would give you the 68uf required and cost appx $300 just for the 68uf equivalent to do a pair with Sonicaps. There is an economic reason to use cheaper caps if you insist on using sonicaps. Recapping a Chorus I with all Sonicaps would run over $400 just for the caps if you stayed just with them.

 

  I am not telling you what to do but what I have done to make me  happy and my reasoning and will leave it at that with no further comment about this here.

I have a Dayton audio 68uf poly in my chorus II's and love the bass. 

 

Again sorry I may not have explained correctly, I have sonic caps already from previous projects. I will definitely be using budget caps if I do decide to buy any. Will have to decide of I want to use a poly in woofer path, cost will be the deciding factor. Would be an interesting experiment, chorus II's do sound good with poly's in them.