Modernize the Klipschorn: Biting 2 Bulletts

[Loudogp250]

That's cool. My cell is 513-652-4811. Thanks

[garyrc]

With the stock networks, PK's designs start to struggle at 100dB. With a good set of networks, you can take them to 120dB without a hiccup. We did this in Indy, and we had Trey's LaScalas moving across the floor. There were people in seats about 15 feet back -- not even flinching. Trey had the SPL meter sitting on a table, about 5 feet from one of the LaScalas, and I believe the reading when the picture was taken was 122dB.

 

What networks were you and Trey using?

[Quiet_Hollow]

What networks were you and Trey using?

Doesn't matter. At 100 dB, any enclosed room shy of anechoic chamber is going to struggle with dispensing of that energy. If changing out the network helps (especially where differences of 20 dB SPL are concerned), that's because it's attenuating something.

 

Discussions of perceived harshness and SPL are, for all intents, extremely debatable without the inclusion of source, signal chain employed, speaker placement, room dimensions, and reverberation times.

[djk]

" that's because it's attenuating something."

 

Did you ever stop and think about the stress on the tweeter with 6dB vs the 18dB Chebychev?

[Deang]

Since so many trivial the impact of network design tweaks and better parts, it's difficult not to push back with strong language that doesn't look like embellishment.

I cannot find the pilgrimage thread with the pics and comments -- I gave up. I think Trey might have been running some later model AAs, because the networks were loaded with those small, flat yellow Mylars. It sounded pretty bad. The sound was strident and harsh. The networks I had brought were what is now called the "SuperX", which is really just a modified ALK Universal (first order bandpass). At the time, I was using film and foils in the 18dB/octave tweeter section, and paralleled Auricaps at the primary position. I knew it would get loud, so I knocked an additional 3dB off of the mids - they were 6dB down that night. What can I say, it sounded really good. Many came up and said a lot of nice things. At the time, that event was make or break for this business -- a fail would have finished me. I viewed it the same way as the Arkansas Gathering where I demoed the RF-7 mod, where I won over a room full of skeptics. I sometimes think people believe this stuff is done in a vacuum, it isn't. I understand the impact that a room can have on the sound, and "a bad room" is really going to work against you -- but so will a dirty signal path and lousy source material. I've proven several times what happens when you don't go cheap on the parts.

So, Mr. Quiet Hollow is now on my radar, and when I get caught up, I will see what I can do about getting a box on his porch.

I should mention that my AAs incorporate DJK's tweeter filter tweak, the second caps is a 6.8uF, and it does sound better. I also add a coil in series with the K-55, which improves things a bit. The early filters had this part, but PK removed it when he started using the K-55/K-400/Type A. Bob says he dropped it because it wasn't needed. Well, it doesn't "need" it, that's true, but it sounds better with it. I had John Warren test the mod for me -- it isn't doing much on paper, but it's very audible. It's clearly alleviating some pressure off of the horn (less distortion from throat), and the strident quality at high volume levels is all but gone (source material dominates).

Adding to what Dennis alluded to, different network types have different "sweet spots ". The Type A for example opens up very fast, and just a twitch on the volume control is all it takes to fill the space with a sound that sounds "right". However, it doesn't take much to get this filter out of its comfort zone, and too much power turns the sound into a garbled mess. Still, people who listen with lower powered amps and reasonable volume levels often prefer this filter. John Albright's "DHA2" also falls into this category, as does "Greg's" VTK-400. The big horn/driver combos probably do better with these filter types, but I think overall, better performance will be achieved with a few more parts.

Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm attempting to move completely to film and foils and paper and oils, which is where I was 7 years ago. It just sounds so much better.