gaspr Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thanks for finding this great old thread. Know of any more out there? Garth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Thanks for finding this great old thread. Know of any more out there? Garth Hi Garth, There are many good old threads. What kind of subject are you interested in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaspr Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hi Parrot Actually, subject is not that important. What I really enjoy is the way some of these electrical engineers could weild a pen almost as well as they could a slide rule. Seems as if PWK and his contemporaries took great pride in their prose and could argue with each other while maintaining a civil tone. Fun stuff. Garth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I find it amazing tha PWK could come up with a speaker design that is fairly economical and can satisfy most of the "ears" on this forum. The odds of accomplishing this are worse than trying to win the Powerball. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Biting bullets are dangerous, you could get lead poisoning , perhaps that is why they are no longer here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 This was especially interesting to me because in the year 2000 I owned and listened daily to the very set of Klipschorns that Richard Heyser analyzed. They were extremely engaging and I never thought once about doing anything to them. According to Trey nothing special was done to these units. Long story short those Khorns went back to Hope to the Klipsch museum and I subsequently got a new pair of 2004 Khorns. The new Khorns were much brighter and seemed to have less depth than those I had experienced (which was my only reference point). I also became involved with this forum and eventually went about fixin' and tweakin'. Ended up with pretty much with what antelope did back then. Got JBL 2482 mids, 2404 tweeters and AlK's crossovers. The 2004 Khorn tops remain silently in place but I've had slate cut that will eventually supplant them. Curious huh????[:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Did you have the 2004s in the same location and with the same other equipment as the ones Heyser had? Interesting that they were *that* different to the point, seems like, you didn't much care for the stock 2004s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I had the Heyser units in 4 separate homes all but one had the correct corner placement. The 2004 units have been in one home with ideal corner placement. The best situation would have been to compare the 2 against each other in the same placement, amps, etc.... What perhaps has the greater impact is that I pretty much worked the entire time I owned the Heyser units whereas I've been retired with the newer ones. A lot more listening time and more discernng attention afforded to it. Yet I can clearly aver that the newer units are decidedly brighter for another reason...Al K crossovers. When I initially installed them I did 1 speaker at a time, same amp set-up and source. The difference in the bass was astonishing. The whole bottom end opened wide and played tight and with personality. The AK-4 crossover does not allow for the bass the Khorn design has to present. From the very 1st time I fired up the new units I started wondering where the bass went. I flipped and upgraded tubes. I went back to SS with tone controls. Al K crossovers fixed the problem as well as bringing the entire set of modifications to their greatest potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 This was especially interesting to me because in the year 2000 I owned and listened daily to the very set of Klipschorns that Richard Heyser analyzed. They were extremely engaging and I never thought once about doing anything to them. According to Trey nothing special was done to these units. Long story short those Khorns went back to Hope to the Klipsch museum and I subsequently got a new pair of 2004 Khorns. The new Khorns were much brighter and seemed to have less depth than those I had experienced (which was my only reference point). I also became involved with this forum and eventually went about fixin' and tweakin'. Ended up with pretty much with what antelope did back then. Got JBL 2482 mids, 2404 tweeters and AlK's crossovers. The 2004 Khorn tops remain silently in place but I've had slate cut that will eventually supplant them. Curious huh????[:^)] I have been curious for years about this Test Model. Maybe Trey or someone from Klipsch could check them tell us for sure what Drivers and Crossover were in this Test Model that Richard Heyser analyzed. If it was a current version at that time I would assume it had the K55M and K77M with either the AK or AK-2 Crossover. One thing is for sure if the Equipment or Rooms changed during the time you heard the two different versions of the Khorn it would be almost impossible to clearly be sure of what caused the sound variations. Very interesting and thanks for posting this Oscarsear! mike[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Whatever happened to BobG? I remember him getting into it with a few people back in the day... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Over the last year I bit the second bullett: The realization that the midrange and tweeter horns and crossovers in the Klipschorn system are poorly designed, and to try to improve them is futile. I decided that a horn with only a 1/2in. throat (at the driver) is never going to sound smooth. The reputation of honkiness in horns is attributable to such casual, careless designs. It's a good thing PWK is not around to read that one! jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 wow that was a long wait between posts john! warm regards form sunny el salvador! tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Dear antelope, my "silly" throat explanation was used as an over simplification for our audience who may or may not know what the heck we are talking about. Just for academic purposes you may want to re-measure your K400s' throat/gasket/and "actual" working area off the K55s' phasing plug behind the protective screen, I think you'll find no mis-match. I used a micrometer long ago on these units when modifiying the K 400 to take Altec & JBL 1" drivers. And again your update approach is certainly a viable(albeit)expensive approach to the problem. My only problem is again that rather flippant attack on Klipschs' engineering choices. You hate them,cool. I think they can improve in their present state, cool. But their are others who have much grander credentials then ours who consider them outstanding examples of the horn makers art. Regarding the jubilee. The only thing it shares in common with the Klipschorn is that its a corner horn and it suppossidly can be used against a wall ala JBL Hartsfield. Its' bass horn contains 2 12" drivers crossed over at 800cps to a Tractrix horn with I believe a 1.5 in. throat. The original K-horns were 2 ways back in the 40s'and Paul Klipsch has worked to eventually wind back up with a 2 way at $15000.00 a pair. One parting shot regarding correctly designed horns. The proper damping from a horn is imparted by its correctly designed flare rate and geometry not by the particular materials used in construction. I've heard dreadful as well as sublime JBL horns in wood,cast aluminum,and fiberglass and the same from other manufacturers. Most are now made from plastic(ugh) for cost reasons alone. If you plan on keeping your K-horn bottoms and hate the tops so much sell me those KKK(Kasual,Kareless,Klipsch)400 midrange horns and drivers, tweeters and xovers too. I'll give you $50.00! Thanks Filmofreddy! I have the same feeling I had as a 9 year old when my big brother kicked the crap out of the 10 year old that was bullying us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 What date did this thread get started??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 What date did this thread get started??? Back when your beard was black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 FILMOFREDDY,,,,, I DISAGREE....WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAY,, JBL WAS AND IS HIGH QUALITY,,,PWK ALLWAYS TRIED TO FIND THE CHEAPEST WAY...I NEW HIM WELL !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) PWK ALLWAYS TRIED TO FIND THE CHEAPEST WAY. And you have always believed that this is true? Edited May 14, 2014 by Boxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I wish someone could define what "jagged" means, I so want to hear this on my system. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 He tried to find ways of minimizing cost without compromising sound quality. All of the varients of the K-55 are good drivers. Look at the amount of money that has to be spent to find something that goes from 400 to 5000. The PD5 is a great driver, and sounds good too. When distortion goes down, the volume control goes up. With the stock networks, PK's designs start to struggle at 100dB. With a good set of networks, you can take them to 120dB without a hiccup. We did this in Indy, and we had Trey's LaScalas moving across the floor. There were people in seats about 15 feet back -- not even flinching. Trey had the SPL meter sitting on a table, about 5 feet from one of the LaScalas, and I believe the reading when the picture was taken was 122dB. You can design a loudspeaker to sound good at reasonable volume levels, or extremely loud levels -- but not both. Everything has a sweet spot, and Heritage is right around 90-95 with peaks of 105dB -- which is pretty damn loud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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