heresy2guy Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Hi. I've got a pair of HeresyIIs that I bought new about 10 years ago and have been driving them all this time with a Proton D940 receiver rated at 40wpc with 6dbs of headroom and I always loved the sound. I needed a new receiver because my Proton "died" about 2 weeks ago so I thought I'd go the cheap route because my Heresys always sounded so good --- WRONG MOVE! I bought a $130 Technics receiver that's rated at 100wpc and now my Heresys sound like TOTAL GARBAGE! I paid around $900 for my Heresys back in '92 and I think I paid around $400 for the proton receiver back in '90. I know that prices have dropped A LOT on receivers since then so when i saw the Technics with 100wpc for only $130 I figured why not. MY MISTAKE. I've just done some researching on this topic and some people say you need high-quality SS equipment to get good sound from the Hesersy IIs. I guess my Proton was of decent quality then cause the sound was AWESOME! The Technics unit I just bought must be of crap quality cause the sound is CRAPPY! Is there a current SS receiver that'll make my Heresys sing again for say, under $400? Or should I look for a tube amp? To be honest I know very little about tube amps - do they still make them, if so, how expensive are they and how much power do you need? My proton had only 40wpc with 6dbs of headroom and they made my Heresys sound wonderful. What kind of tube amp today, would compare to the experience I had with my proton? Maybe I sould just take the Proton into an electronics store and see how much it'll cost to fix? Hmmmm.... Decisions, decisions... At any rate, some help on current tube amp choices AND decent SS choices would be appreciated if anyone has the time to post it here. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I, like many others, find that Denon is a good SS amp for the Heresy. They are slightly warmer than the comparable Yamaha models and provide a very smooth mid and high freqs. That said though, I found the Yamaha a very good match as well. I have heard and can condone Rotel and Marantz. All four have reliable units in your price range, but it you think about used equipment you can probably step up in their lines and walk away very satisfied. I am a Denon user (the analogy of user for addictions seems appropriate) that is very satisfied.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 You got around 50-100 bucks plus shipping? Look on eBay for an old Harman/Kardon 430, 630, or 730 receiver. My preference is the 430 and 730...the 730 having a few more features. For the price I don't think you can beat em...old OR new! Take a look at these on eBay right now: 1944876290; 1944800087; 1944889483; 1945718019 With any of the above, after a good cleaning of the controls and a good dusting out of them inside, they will make your Heresys SING...probably BETTER than you have EVER HEARD BEFORE on ANY S/S gear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Experience on this forum has taught me to LISTEN to the guys that have been around the block one or two times with Klipsch. If builder says the H&K sounds great -- than it does. Others here have taken his advice on the amp, and are very happy with it. Certainly worth giving it a shot at those prices -- you lose practically nothing. BTW -- have I been right about ANYTHING in the last year? Uhg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Dean, Thanks...BTW...are those Heresys making your ears bleed yet? J/K...LOL! Hey, Dean...give those Heresys a try-out with Loggins and Messina's "House at Pooh Corner"...off of their "Sittin' In" album...then throw on Mariah Carey's "Vision of Love" from her first album....top it all off with Steely Dan's "Do it Again" from their "Can't Buy a Thrill" album...do this test at VOLUME!!...and watch the hairs on the back of your neck rise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 HDBRbuilder is right, The HK430 sounds great. I also have a Yamaha that I think sounds really good. If you want all the surround processing and DTS and DD5.1 stuff the Yamaha is a great buy. The Yamaha HTR-5540 can be had at Best Buy for about $299.00. fwiw, The technics receiver my dad used to have sounded crummy on his JBL studio monitors so it's not just the heresy that have this "problem" with cheaply constructed amps. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkbks Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 What specifically are you looking for? A receiver (tuner, preamp, amp); a surround sound receiver (5.1 or 6.1); a intergrated amp (no tuner) or a preamp/amp separate combo? Yes, the Technics was a mistake. Klipsch will always reveal weakness upstream. You need be prepared to spend some bucks on amplification to get some quality. A highly regarded 5.1 surround sound receiver is the Outlaw 1050, $499 list with occasional used ones showing up. Its bias is toward music reproduction rather than film sound. At the moment, I am listening with great pleasure to internet radio thru a NAD T760 (purchased used off Ebay for under $400) with an Adcom 535 powering the Cornwalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 There's always this option... e-bay Item # 1946000023 Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 My entire post was showing EXACTLY that you DON'T!!! "NEED TO BE PREPARED TO SPEND SOME BUCKS ON AMPLIFICATION TO GET SOME QUALITY"...but if you want to spend alot of money...hey, it's your money!!...Right?? Take 400 to 500 bucks and do as you please, but I can guarantee you one thing...what you end up hearing won't be any better than a 45 buck H/K 430 can give you out of those Heresys! Your call! Try this...take that Technics back, take the money you spent on it, use some of it for a 430 or 730 eBay purchase...when it comes in, give the controls a good cleaning, blow the dust out of the inside of it...then take another 500 bucks and buy some "quality"...LOL!...listen to them both...then you can always take the 500 buck baby back after you hear what I am talking about! LOL! Just remember this...your previous receiver squatted after just 12 years...those H/K's I recommended are over TWENTY-FIVE YEARS OLD...and still running and sounding GREAT!! Hint! Hint! But they must not be "quality"...huh? LOL! Think about this too...MSRP for the H/K 430 in 1976 dollars was $320...no small sum at that time! For the H/K 730 model it was $450 in 1976 dollars!! My take-home pay in May of 1976 as an army buck sergeant drawing jump pay atop my duty pay...was only $476 a MONTH!! There is a good comparison to go by! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 HDBR, How do those Harman's compare to old Scott tubes? I realize that this is an apples to oranges thing (SS v Tube) but are these particular SS units "warmer" than others? I have a second room that one of these tuners would work well in. How would the Harman's sound compared to my denon 5800? (my older Denon sounds too bright or "horney" with my heresys and this may be a good replacement for a second system) Chris By the way, I just bought Turbo's old Scott L-48 and can't wait to hear it on the heritage speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 To be honest with you...I don't think many if ANY of the S/S units EVER made are any closer to the sound of a good tube amplification than those particular H/K S/S models...and they even put a number of tube amps to shame! If you have heritage speakers, and want them to sound great, then those models will do it for you...and INEXPENSIVELY, TOO! I love mine, Justin loves his, Josh loves his, and I just can't wait til we hear from Rick Tate...he just got one on eBay yesterday "for his son"...but I hope to hell he gives it a good try-out with his speakers before his son gets it...outta be fun reading his comments! LOL! Matter of fact...his son may end up having to pry it outta his dad's hands after a good listen to it!! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 So is $89 for the 730 a good price (it sounds like it is) Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 That's a decent "buy it now"...but I have seen them go for less. That particular eBay seller had a "buy it now' for that same item ...that was never reached...it has been re-listed with a lower "buy it now" at this time...there is another eBay seller with one with way too high a "buy it now" IMHO...but it also doesn't have any bids in on it...it will probably get re-listed with a lower "buy it now", too! If you don't need the extra power of the 730, and can live with one tape monitor input, two tape-out outputs, one aux input, and one phono input....then the 430 is a better deal for you...especially for Heresys in a smallish room!! But if you want more inputs/outputs, a bit more power, and a bridged pre-amp out/main amp input on the back, then the 730 is the way to go! Its added power and versatility are nice to have if needed...twice as many tape monitors, twice as many phono inputs, twice as many aux inputs. It's rear panel can become a virtual Medusa if you want!! LOL! At the current going prices on eBay...and considering how great these units really are...I don't think there is a better deal around anywhere!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 One last question, does the 730 have MC turntabe capability. If I get rid of my old denon, I will need this. (and do the 430's have this or are they all MM?) Thanks, chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 They have damned good phono circuits designed for MM...but you can pick up a decent outboard MC amp fairly reasonably....and you may find that going to a good MM is also an option. I run an old CD-4 MM cartridge in my SL-1300 T/T...and it REALLY sounds fantastic!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkbks Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 HDBR: Yes, I concur there are good used amps out there if you know what to look for. Not everyone, however, is able or willing to go that route. What I meant was that with quality speakers such as Klipsch you cannot expect to go out & buy Technics or Sherwood or such from your local discount chain & expect it to sound good. My H/K 330B (I've read your comments) served me well for more than a decade, but once I got my Cornwalls, I realized it was not adequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Yeah...the 330 models were not "twin-powered", even though they were the largest volume seller of receivers in the world for a few years. Once you graduated up the line into the 430, 730, etc...there was a world of difference between the capability of those receivers for heritage speaker listening! That twin-powering gave you all the reserve power needed to make the speakers give their utmost in performance during complex passages...something the 330, as good as it was, just didn't have the reserve power to do! There is a world of difference between what you hear with heritage speakers when listening to a 430/630/730, and what you hear with just a 330 as the power source! Heritage horns suck the 330 dry of its power quickly...and the sound shows it is severely lacking...NOT the case with its twin-powered bigger brothers! Not the case at all!! As for just grabbing up something middle of the road today in the 100-200 buck range NEW and expecting to get any great performance from it...it just isn't gonna happen...NOT with Klipsch speakers. But the option of buying "vintage" is always there...and if one knows what to look for, and sees that particular models from yesteryear are being ignored for more "nostalgic", but lower grade performers in that used marketplace...then one can grab these up on the cheap until the word finally gets out, and the prices are driven up accordingly. At this particular point in time...those "twin-powered" X30 series receivers fall into this category of not having been "re-discovered" yet...but it is already beginning to appear that this won't be lasting forever!! Prices are already going up on them as I type this!! That's GREAT for ME...I already have MINE!! LOL!...it just makes my investment a monetarily-wise one in addition to a performance-wise one!!...LOL!...but for those looking for something quality at a low price...soon it won't be so cheap for them to find one in the internet marketplace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Lordy... Holy S***, Andy. You have gone around the bend. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 HDBR, Can you reccommend any separates? I see that the dual powered unti is the way to go in HK SS. What separates are out there that are not discovered yet? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Kelly...nope...they ask, I answer...but the more I listen to this 430 currently in my rack, the more I like it...and I ALREADY LIKED IT!! LOL! I was listening to the kick drum at the beginning of Lionel Ritchie's "All night long" on vinyl last night...and it dawned on me that I have never heard it that well reproduced through the Heresys before...this kinda thing keeps happening...everytime I put something else on to listen to...quite an eye-opener! IT'S FREAKIN FUN!! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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