BMW vs. Mercedes

[prodj101]

we have an old mini, I like those more.

[T2K]

After years of jumping in and out of expensive automobiles I'm as happy as ever with my present vehicle, 1994 Chevrolet S-10 x-cab 4X4 4.3 L35 W/60,000 miles. Wore out 2 sets of boat trailer tires and hauled a lot of Klipsch speakers in it. Best of all, it'll roll right up on top of the rear of most of the aforementioned vehicles.

The part I like best in the Union label just inside the driver's door jamb.

Keith

[BLOOMIS914]

Keith before I voice my comment let me state for the record I have two Ford vehicles; a 2000 Crown Vic built at St. Thomas Assy in Canada and a 2000 Ford Expedition made at Michigan Truck about 5 miles from my house.

That UAW sticker you love so much only adds about $800 to $1,100 per vehicle to the original price of the car, depending on Mfgr. The UAW has the some of the richest contracts/benefits/pensions an employee can find in the US today. Auto workers get some of the best health care insurance and retirement packages that any employers offer. I have no problem with Unions just think that it is just one reason we as American Mfg's are losing ground to ALL the transplants/rice burners here and abroad. Not too mention horrific quality problems at Ford....Just look at the Focus........8++ recalls in just a few years.

Don't want to start another big debate but you brought up the Union pride thing and I am just offering my opinion.

I think you and I had this dicussion earlier in a different thread about Vance, AL (DCX) and so on and so forth. Let's be civil and agree to disagree on this one.

[foldedhorn]

Before you rip in to the unions. "The UAW has the some of the richest contracts/benefits/pensions an employee can find in the US today. Auto workers get some of the best health care insurance and retirement packages that any employers offer" Don't forget the CEO's and board of directors ALSO share in the "richest contracts/benefits/pensions" found in the WORLD today. So your idea of "about $800 to $1,100 per vehicle" is not all union. If you wish to point a fingers dont single out the money grabbing unions for the CEO and entire board is as equally grabbing.

Lets not forget the damage that the CEO and board of Enron and Wordcom did. And they were not even union.

"I have no problem with Unions just think that it is just one reason we as American Mfg's are losing ground to ALL the transplants/rice burners here and abroad". You use the term "we" It seems to me you are not familiar with the manufacturing field. U.S. manufacturing is getting the living crap beat out of them. Even though Bush claims there is no problem. Explain that to the (close estimation) 100 machine mold tool and die shops that have went bankrupt in the chicagoland area alone. Why, because the big companies that supply these little shops with work are going to China. They will do the work for a 1/5 less than the non-union no benefits paid supply your own pension U.S. worker can do it for. Why does big business do this oh, I dont know maybe because the board and CEOs are paid in stock and the bottom line is all that matters so they will ***** out work to anywhere that will do it the cheapest. So their stock prices go up and when they sell the make more. Then that same big business has the audacity to expect an American to buy it after he was too expensive to make it.

For the record, I dont talk in third person Americans are paid too much Unions are overpaid. NO!! you, I, we, is the people we are talking about. Im not saying we are overpaid I am saying China might have YOUR job next.

If you dont understand what I am saying, Klipsch Hope Arkansas U.S.A.

The pro media they are not made here. WHY? Probably Klipsch does not want to hire another American worker for dollars an hour when they can hire Chinese for pennies a week Look at that profit margin. Then expect that same American worker to buy those pro medias. While the CEO and Board are washing the green off their hands.

Only one flaw in that logic. When that same American worker is jobless. He aint buyn no pro medias.

To Hell with the American worker GO CEOs !!!!!(Sarcasm)

[Brian HCM#1]

Benz holds their value much better than BMW's. The are both very sweet(as long as you stay away from the training models like the Benz 2 series and the BMW 3 series)For speeding around the BMW for fine dining the Benz.

[sj993]

That's a good description. IMO Benz's are more luxury oriented and better apointed then comparble BMW's. Bimmer's are more tools of the road. Such fine tools they are

[Radiohead]

I am a huge fan of Japanese workmanship(Honda)and have been since purchasing my first car, a 1985 Civic, years ago. After driving it all through high school I sold it and purchased a 91 Accord which I still drive today as my beater. After fifteen years with these two cars the only thing I ever had to replace were timing belts and alternators with oil changes of course. Last week I purchased a companion for my Accord and of course it is another Honda. I test drove the new 03 Accord Coupe V6 and was very impressed, but in the end I went home with an entirely different animal. See picture attached.

As far as the BMW vs. MB debate is concerned I would have to say I am a bit more in favor of BMW's models. The M series cars are very well designed machines; but, the AMG series are also and their history speaks for itself. Between the two cars listed above though I would go with the M5 hands down. That is quite possibly the finest four door sports sedan ever created.

Personally if I were going to spend anywhere in the neighborhood of $70-80k it would be on a Silverstone Acura NSX. Then again this is coming from a 25 year old with no kids or a wife to worry about right now. If I were the family man it would be the M5 or RS6.

[T2K]

Bloom, I thought you were the one bragging about selling KSP-S6's a while back for $850 a pair. And you're concerned about someone getting ripped buying a American auto. You're a jewel!

Keith

[sj993]

Radiohead,

The S2000 is a true Honda! It is the only car I'm aware of that has over 200HP, is a 4 cyl, has a six-speed and is rear-wheel drive. Such an awesome car. Have you taken it out on a racetrack? That's where it truly shines. Kinda sad though that Honda seems to be drifiting away from the higher end power engines with it's mainstream cars. Though I don't see the logic in doing it with the new Civic SI. It's a huge disapointment compared to the previous generation SI and not just in the performance department. Still I too have principally owned Hondas, a Civic and my current Accord and I have to say they are wonderful, well-built cars.

[GreatBarrier87]

how about a nice Buick Park Avenue or LeSabre? j/k

[TBrennan]

Barrier---Buicks and Caddys are very nice cars but evidently carry old-fashioned baggage. In other words in a Buick or Caddy you look like a regular guy with money; American style cool. Many think it's better to look like a EuroDork than be cool in the old American manner. In other words these people think a smarmy Julio Eglesias (SP?) is cooler than Elvis.

Many Americans have evidently lost faith in their own culture and are unable to understand the "cool" factor of a black Northstar ElDorado or a Crown Vic Sport Package. I feel sorry for them.

[sj993]

The "cool" factor you so eloquently refer to means different things to different people. Just because you don't like European cars does that mean you have to go around calling people who drive them "Eurodorks?" Your views are good and fine, but they are your views. Don't expect everyone to agree with everything you have to say because many of us don't.

[TheEAR]

Radiohead,

Congrats great choice! A true race motor in this baby,a sure hit.Yep you have the true racing Honda spirit in this car.

Very nice

[BLOOMIS914]

Keith, nice out of context post.........Sounds like someone is a little jealous I got $850 for my KSP-S6's......Since you brought it up let's share the facts before you tell one-sided BS stories......

I bought the particular pair you are referring to for MSRP at $750. I was NOT interested in selling but told the relentless buyer from this board that IF he made me an offer that I couldn't refuse I would consider. End of story. Subtract approx. $30.00 for shipping that I paid and my profit was about $70.00.....My conscience is clear and the buyer was elated to own these at a time when the new RS-7's didn't exist. He is still proud and says he wouldn't sell them because there is no better match for his Legends. SUPPLY & DEMAND...... Learn it Libbie

So, one of two things are going on here, either you are jealous that the buyer found me before he found you and your S6's or you gave yours away because you needed another doobie. Either way, what was your point in bringing this up?

I won't respond off topic in this thread again so feel free to spout off with anymore BS. BTW, I have two more pairs of Black KSP-S6's that are in use and in perfect condition. They are not for sale, but for you I will let them go for $1,000 per pair.

Have a happy New Year!

[BLOOMIS914]

Tbrennan- I have a Crown Vic and it is a babe magnet!!!!! Yeah right....But I would much rather be driving the Caddy STS or Eldorado STS, both with the Northstar V8!!

[TBrennan]

SJ---Oh Christ, I hope everybody doesn't sgree with me, then I wouldn't be cool. Of course this brings up the subject of German cars and the paradox of the Baby-Boomer Bourgeoisie wanting to be Bourgeoisie and cool at the same time. This is a paradox because the notion of cool is itself anti-Bourgeoisie and originally resided with socially suspect types such as Left-Wing Labor organizers, 1940s Hepsters, bi-sexual Beatniks, Checkerboard Chicks, White Trash Hillbilly Rock and Rollers and junkie ***** Jazz musicians (and Red Rodney). A disgusted reaction to (or total ignoring of) the boosterism, pathetic earnestness and social complacency of the Middle and Upper classes is the clay from which "cool" is molded.

Thus the Cadillac was an uncool car in the 1960s (unless owned by Elvis or Jerry Lee Lewis and their ilk) because it was Bourgeoisie. But as Baby-Boomer taste evolved German cars became cool with Bourgeoisie Yuppie Boomers. But of course such things can't REALLY be cool because they're Bourgeoisie. Thus the Caddy or Buick, derided by the Baby Boomers, becomes the "anti-Yuppie" car and they become cool. Plus the associations with Elvis make the Caddy cool; everything about Elvis is cool, especially his determination to stay true to his Hillbilly roots and refusal to sell-out and become part of "respectable", tasteful, society. And that refusal to sell-out was why his fans loved him so.

Think about it, I'm right.

[TBrennan]

Bloom---Oh yeah, I love Vics. I had a red 97 with the H&P package, great car. Last year I went to trade it in and get another Vic and came out with a bright Yellow Focus Street Edition. I saw it on the floor and said "write it up". I'm a 54 year-old, old-school, tough-guy Boilermaker in a yellow Focus.:-) Swell car, 40,000 miles and no trouble. Runs good and handles and rides very well, quiet too.

A Boilermaker pal of mine recently bought a new Vic with the Sport Package: dual-exhaust V-8, handling suspension, 17" mags and so forth. Car is black with black trim. The blacked-out grill makes it look like a squad car to people ahead, a good left-lane clearer. We took a trip from Chicago to DC and the car was swell; great handling, fast, REAL quiet, good ride and we looked really cool in it.

Another Boilermaker pal has a black Northstar ElDorado, oh yeah, gorgeous car, tough enough man. We were car-pooling on a night-shift and he was the toolroom man on the job, he got drunk every night and I had to drive. I'd get that Caddy runnin' up over 120 on I-55 every night.

[BLOOMIS914]

TBrennan- Sounds great! I have been eyeing the new Mercury Marauder just because Ford is finally trying to go after the performance 4 door sedan market since GM stopped building the Impala SS. The best part about my Crown Vic is driving fast in the left lane at night.....Everyone moves over and QUICK! The new Mercury Marauder has got some muscle and would be a lot of fun for $30K or so.

I am 34 and the boss insists I drive a conservative vehicle while calling on the Auto OEM's and Tier 1 suppliers.

I can just imagine trying to convince my customers to buy my product if I pulled up in the BMW M5. YIKES!!

[T2K]

Bloomis said, "Keith, nice out of context post.........Sounds like someone is a little jealous I got $850 for my KSP-S6's......Since you brought it up let's share the facts before you tell one-sided BS stories......

I bought the particular pair you are referring to for MSRP at $750. I was NOT interested in selling but told the relentless buyer from this board that IF he made me an offer that I couldn't refuse I would consider. End of story. Subtract approx. $30.00 for shipping that I paid and my profit was about $70.00.....My conscience is clear and the buyer was elated to own these at a time when the new RS-7's didn't exist. He is still proud and says he wouldn't sell them because there is no better match for his Legends. SUPPLY & DEMAND...... Learn it Libbie

So, one of two things are going on here, either you are jealous that the buyer found me before he found you and your S6's or you gave yours away because you needed another doobie. Either way, what was your point in bringing this up?

I won't respond off topic in this thread again so feel free to spout off with anymore BS. BTW, I have two more pairs of Black KSP-S6's that are in use and in perfect condition. They are not for sale, but for you I will let them go for $1,000 per pair.

Have a happy New Year! "

No, the out of context initiator is you bloom. YOU let slip your jealousy for American Union workers earning a good living. My advice to you is the same as the last time this subject came up. If its so good, why don't YOU get out there and get YOU some of it! Maybe just a little too much WORK, huh?

I simply stated that I enjoy my AMERICAN built vehicle and that I get this warm fuzzy feeling inside knowing that I am keeping my fellow AMERICANS in a job. With that education of yours I was sure that you could see how that comment was related to the topic being discussed. Seems you're a little slow, so here's a hint: the discussion topic is "BMW vs Mercedes". Get it now?

Think about this (take some time if you need to), I can support my AMERICAN Brothers with my dollars by buying the product which is produced by their labor, or I can buy a vehicle from a foreign manufacturer and use my dollars later to support my UNemployed AMERICAN Brothers by paying for unemployment. Speaking of producing, something tells me that you actually produce nothing tangible. I'm terribly intuitive.

I know all about supply and demand. My own personal problem is that I just can't help giving speakers away. So congratulations, you're actually correct, I guess I am liberal. I've probably given away more speakers over the years than you own. I value my friends, and I don't worry about a few bucks.

Oh and, I've got two pair too! Just bought another single the other day for $89.89.

Thanks for the New Years regards bloom. I hope for you happiness,good health, and the ability to free your mind of others financial business.

Keith

AMERICAN/UNION GUY

[Radiohead]

I just want to say that there are no doubt fine Americans working to produce American cars...no argument there. Yes it is a nice feeling to support American workers and the economy; I know from first hand experience because I purchased a 2002 Camaro Z28 last January during the 0% financing in the aftermath of 9/11. I drove it for the past eleven months and was only satisfied for about the first three. Once the initial "high" from the torque and horsepower went away I realized I had paid mainly for an engine. The fit and finish of American cars just isn't there, hasn't been for quite some time, and the warm, fuzzy feeling of supporting American workers ceases to exist for me when I am shelling out $30k for a car.